Glind & Pirahna hot water heat exchangers on Sprinters

ehallspqr

Member
I have been building my Sprinter conversion and choosing my appliances to see if I can get around having propane system onboard. We will be doing about 50% dry camping and 50% campgrounds with electric shore power supplied, so everything I have can run off supplied 110V AC and 12 volt DC via a solar panel with two group 27 size batteries. I am looking at an Espar Diesel heater for dry camping and a small electric heater when plugged in, I have a dual electric/alcohol stove top and a 12V DC/110V AC Engel fridge. The last major appliance is the water heater and I am a bit stumped as to what will work for both types of camping activities. I was thinking about a small, on demand 110V water heater when staying at a campground, but what to use when dry camping? There are a couple heat exchanger type water heaters from Australia that look like they might fit the bill. The company that makes the one I am looking at is called Glind. The other company is Piranha off road but theirs appears to be made by Glind. My question is has anyone installed one of these and what did they think? Would this be a good route to go for a Sprinter installation for dry camping purposes?

http://boating4x4camping.openstores.com.au/c/38/Showers.html
 
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Check out marine water heaters that have 120V coil and a built in heat exchanger to heat the tank from the engine coolant ( some have eutectic salt in them that gives more capacity) Alternatively have a separate diesel Espar hydronic heater to feed the heat exchanger as well as your space heating coils.
Bob
 

ehallspqr

Member
Check out marine water heaters that have 120V coil and a built in heat exchanger to heat the tank from the engine coolant ( some have eutectic salt in them that gives more capacity) Alternatively have a separate diesel Espar hydronic heater to feed the heat exchanger as well as your space heating coils.
Bob
You know I took a closer look at marine dual electric/heat exchanger water heaters and those might be a way to go. I was thinking about using an AC electric on demand water heater along with a separate heat exchanger but your right, some marine type WH's combine the two heating methods into one unit. The final cost would be the same and installation might be simplified. The one I was checking out was isotemp 6.4 gallons all stainless unit.

So your saying an Espar Hydronic heater as apposed to a Airtronic heater for heating and hot water? I take it the Espar Hyd. would feed the Glind heat exchanger for hot water and also to a heating radiator for heat. I'll have to check that option out as well. Thanks Pvs for the ideas.
 

d_bertko

Active member
I did not overthink the hot water problem for my no-installed-propane DIY Sprinter. We drycamp or boondock almost all of the time. We generally need hot water daily to wash dishes. We're not averse to campground showers. We do have an excellent portable shower, a 5-gal bucket with a 12v shower wand---it's also used for the dish work. The shower gives good results with a tea kettle of boiling water added to a gallon or so of room-temp water. About a gallon and a half total per person.

The tea kettle supplies enough hot water for said shower. Our dishpan washup routine wants a bit more but the camp stove can provide a bigger pot readily enough.

We do plug into shore power on some rare occasions and might heat our water on the magnetic induction "inside" burner. I haven't bothered with an electric ceramic space heater to displace the Airtronic use---it seems to merely sip diesel.

We carry a portable bbq tank for the camp stove and BabyQ. If I needed a lot of hot water I might get a Coleman propane instant hot water heater. That would keep my arrangement portable.

An electric immersion heater sounds like it could be cheap and compact---I think I'm happy enough with heating a pot instead but it still sounds useful.

Our boondocking falls mostly into the "dispersed" category where we can empty a dishpan of gray water. We've got a portable gray tank for the exceptions. Your need to collect your used water may influence how plumbed the supply wants to be. I think we pretend to be Israelis instead of Americans when it comes to water consumption. Not everyone's style.

My suggestion with any Engel fridge would be to increase your bank to 400 ah. That gives you enough batteries for the short high amp bursts an inverter needs for a micro or kitchen appliance and a long duration before alternator, generator, or sunshine is called for to recharge. We have a Honda eu2000i gen that can allow us to be energy wastrels but the gen stays home on most of our trips. Quiet is worth a lot to us in a campground.
 

ehallspqr

Member
D Bertko, We are building our Sprinter conversion along the same lines as your's. Since we do both types of camping, Dry vs full utilities, we are trying to have both options covered. Right now we are all electric and can cook, heat and run everything else on free RV park/campground power. Well, free after you pay to camp LOL. I would like more battery reserve but I am planning on having at least 200 watts of max solar power to keep things charged up. If the system doesn't have enough capacity the I will probably go to at least 300ah battery capacity. Right now my Engel 45 runs my battery down approximately down 25-30% overnight. I charge the battery once per day for a couple hours on my Honda 2K.

That's interesting about the Airtronics using only small amounts of fuel. I was wondering about how efficient they are to run. That's good news. I have a Kenyon duel electric and alchohol burner marine stove. I had been using a Origo alcohol only stove. For oven needs when dry camping I have a portable Coleman oven that you place on a burner. It works pretty good and stows away for traveling.

My wife is insisting on a bathroom with shower in our conversion vs. using the campground showers/toilets. I find the bathrooms/showers at most campgrounds to be halfway decent but she wants the full-bath anyways. I have plans to use a Dometic/Sealand traveler toilet which is a complete bowl/holding tank unit. This was installed in a Scamp trailer I had and we really like it. I think it will be easy to install and uses a standard RV dump system. Will probably hookup a sewage grinder/pump to make dumping a simpler affair. A link to the toilet below:

http://shop.scamptrailers.com/p-155-sealand-711-traveler-toilet.aspx
 

d_bertko

Active member
D Bertko, We are building our Sprinter conversion along the same lines as your's. Since we do both types of camping, Dry vs full utilities, we are trying to have both options covered. Right now we are all electric and can cook, heat and run everything else on free RV park/campground power. Well, free after you pay to camp LOL. I would like more battery reserve but I am planning on having at least 200 watts of max solar power to keep things charged up. If the system doesn't have enough capacity the I will probably go to at least 300ah battery capacity. Right now my Engel 45 runs my battery down approximately down 25-30% overnight. I charge the battery once per day for a couple hours on my Honda 2K.

That's interesting about the Airtronics using only small amounts of fuel. I was wondering about how efficient they are to run. That's good news. I have a Kenyon duel electric and alchohol burner marine stove. I had been using a Origo alcohol only stove. For oven needs when dry camping I have a portable Coleman oven that you place on a burner. It works pretty good and stows away for traveling.

My wife is insisting on a bathroom with shower in our conversion vs. using the campground showers/toilets. I find the bathrooms/showers at most campgrounds to be halfway decent but she wants the full-bath anyways. I have plans to use a Dometic/Sealand traveler toilet which is a complete bowl/holding tank unit. This was installed in a Scamp trailer I had and we really like it. I think it will be easy to install and uses a standard RV dump system. Will probably hookup a sewage grinder/pump to make dumping a simpler affair. A link to the toilet below:

http://shop.scamptrailers.com/p-155-sealand-711-traveler-toilet.aspx
Since you're a Left Coaster of course you want solar panels:D:. Fife looks like a beautiful area to live but you probably have even less sun than me. Here in New England we have half the insolation that my Tucson friends have. And we camp in unshaded sites maybe 10% of the time. So my emphasis was on very efficient devices and enough battery bank. I was quite surprised that we do not need to carry the Honda gen for any trip that avoids more than four stationary days in camp. We do of course waste more electricity on the occasions we have shore power.

I like our mag induction burner very much. It is instant on-off and can simmer with exquisite control. (They're very popular in fancy restaurant kitchens.) I might boil the water for the steelcut oatmeal outside on the 15k btu burner but usually transfer it to the mag for the 30 min simmer. We do find the mag burner and the microwave a nice combo for a road stop meal.

Glad to hear the Coleman oven performs. I've thought about one many times. We might go another direction and get a tabletop convection oven. Better than just a toaster oven. I thought about a combo micro-convection but really like the efficiency, size and performance of our 700w (output) micro. So a supplement of a convection oven for shore power or generator trips might be the way to go. We can always find room for something we'll use. We group camp with fellow whitewater paddlers a lot and my outside kitchen can get pretty elaborate. We set up both quickshelters my last trip for a 10x20 dining hall. A quickshelter makes a fine basecamp and frees up interior space as we spread out into it.

The desire to be able to haul canoes inside has meant I have copious flexibility to carry the quickshelters, the BabyQ, and lots of other gear. I paddle until the rivers go solid---and then I ski. That was a big influence on using a portapotti instead of underside tanks. I can certainly see the advantage of a real toilet but our taste for minimalism really simplifies things. We do a fair amount of travel with night temps below freezing. I think most portapotti owners take advantage of other facilities as convenient. Certainly not for everyone.

The Espar thread here shows some bad pictures of our homesewn "shower sock back porch". No two ways about it---it is marvelous when boondocked in temperate climes to shower in that generous screened space. We use it as an aisle shower only when we have to. It is nice to put away the shower--just fold up the shower curtains and stow the mortar tub. No way Jose would I devote valuable interior to a permanent shower. Many commercial conversion owners use theirs as a closet---plenty have never used their shower at all!
 

d_bertko

Active member
That's a nice setup with the shower porch & screened room. Where did you find that power shower?
Thank you!

I bought the PowerShower from Paha Que for half price on sale. The pump mechanism fits through a WM 7 gal water cube opening if you don't feel like carrying the 5 gal bucket. And the 12v connector fits a standard 12v auto outlet if you prefer that over recharging the small battery it comes with.

Dan
 

miki

Member
Guys, I used to use the coleman hot water on demand system. It's a MUCH cheaper alternative if you want instant hot water and uses a minute amount of electricity via a rechargable 6 volt battery. In the literature it says that it's not to be used indoors, but I found it less dangerous than the open flame on your stove top. I placed it on top of my counter and it fit perfectly, draining water into my sink. The wife nixed the thing because it is a little hard to control the water coming out, I believe it has no flow adjustment on it. It has a 5 gallon tank along with it that was a bit difficult to set up without leaks, but It saves you a lot of money. Or you can do what we did and forego the hot water for a hands free foot pump, the whale gusher galley.:2cents:
 

d_bertko

Active member
Guys, I used to use the coleman hot water on demand system. It's a MUCH cheaper alternative if you want instant hot water and uses a minute amount of electricity via a rechargable 6 volt battery. In the literature it says that it's not to be used indoors, but I found it less dangerous than the open flame on your stove top. I placed it on top of my counter and it fit perfectly, draining water into my sink. The wife nixed the thing because it is a little hard to control the water coming out, I believe it has no flow adjustment on it. It has a 5 gallon tank along with it that was a bit difficult to set up without leaks, but It saves you a lot of money. Or you can do what we did and forego the hot water for a hands free foot pump, the whale gusher galley.:2cents:
Glad to hear about someone who has used that coleman instant job. Without flow control I think I'm better off with my basic system of adding a tea kettle of boiling water to a gallon or two of room temp water for my shower. Easier than describing it---just pour both into the Power Shower 5 gal bucket and you're good to go. I do mix it a little hotter for doing the dishes.
 

ehallspqr

Member
I have seen the Coleman Hot Tap being used at a campground and those did seem to work pretty darn good. I talked to my 4 X 4 buddies and friends that go hunting. These guys go boon-docking for up to 2 weeks and they recommended a Zodi Extreme shower system. It looks like a fire extinguisher with a manual pump handle to pressurize the tank which causes the water to flow. It comes with a burner and stand to heat the water tank. I can get one for $120 online. I was also thinking about the PowerShower like D Bertko has. I have a bathroom tent and portapotty so I will be set once I have a hot shower device. I will do the full built-in shower/bath later when I figure it all out and can afford it.


http://www.zodi.com/web-content/Consumer/zodiextremeshower.html

Teardrop trailer Website that discusses all the camping shower options:

http://home.centurytel.net/edevold/shower/page1.htm#s2d
 

Argonaut

New member
As a rank newbie here, can someone tell me just how easily the heat-exchange water heaters work? Do you have to run the engine to get hot water? Or, how long after turning the engine off will you still get hot water? Is the model installed by Sportsmobile better or worse than others?

Thanks in advance. I recently received a sign from (fill in name of deity) in the form of a refund of Blue Cross premiums. This is definitely the time to upgrade to a Sprinter-based RV. And buy lottery tickets.
 

ehallspqr

Member
As a rank newbie here, can someone tell me just how easily the heat-exchange water heaters work? Do you have to run the engine to get hot water? Or, how long after turning the engine off will you still get hot water? Is the model installed by Sportsmobile better or worse than others?

Thanks in advance. I recently received a sign from (fill in name of deity) in the form of a refund of Blue Cross premiums. This is definitely the time to upgrade to a Sprinter-based RV. And buy lottery tickets.
I had dual mod water heater (engine coolant heat exchanger & propane) on my 1998 Xplorer B-van conversion. Worked very good overall. Yes you do have to run the engine for awhile to heat the water. It is mainly used to heat water when your on the road and also when you arrive at your campsite you'll imediately have hot water. Then you turn the propane on for the rest of the time when parked. I'm not sure but I think most conversion companies use a conventional propane RV water heater and add the engine coolant heat exchanger unit? Sportsmobile's unit should be about the same or better than what you could buy in the market.
 

miki

Member
If you're thinking of the Zodi, then you should look into the coleman hot water on demand system. It's a lot more portable and easy to use. Heats up the water in about 3-5 seconds vs. 5 minutes for the zodi, has an optional shower attachment and is pump operated so no hand pumping, but most importantly has a temp control knob which the zodi lacks. I would think getting the temp right on a zodi would be trial and error, which I don't like to deal with when I'm naked awaiting water to warm me up. Plus the coleman works in a jif as a dishwasher. I think theres a video for it on the coleman site.
 
3

312 diesel (closed)

Guest
If you camp in summer then one of those black instant shower water bags do a remarkably good job. Fill with water and hang it in the sun for the day.
 

ehallspqr

Member
Miki, a friend says he has a Coleman hot water tap that he'll give me. He had it for his tenting days but he has upgraded to an RV so he has no need of it. I also had ordered the Zodi before I found the Coleman so I'll have both to try out. With the Zodi you heat the water ahead of time and then take a shower or wash dishes etc. The Coleman is instant on demand which is great. I also have checked out another propane/12volt on demand system.

312, the solar heated bag shower's are great. I remember those from my back-packing days. As long as the sun is shinning then you have warm water and since they are so cheap I will probably pick up one of those to use when the weather is cooperating. We are striving to be as green and frugal energy wise as possible with our conversion. Everything is going to run off free electricity via a large solar panel. Our heat will be diesel and a couple things like the hot water and barbeque will run off a small propane tank. We have a Honda 2K generator but don't plane to use it that much.
 

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