BioFuel Question

This has been thoroughly discussed. A search the list will yield lots of useful info.

Brief summary: You must NOT use >B5 regularly. However, except in Minnesota, few of us have any trouble finding B5 or lower. Not sure why you are having so much trouble.

In reality we have no idea what blend we are purchasing because the pump labels say up to a certain percentage...........and............nobody will say or actually print what the blend percentage is being sold on that day. Illinois is another state where it might be hard to find a pump without a up to 20% blend label.

There is letter from MB softening their stance on bio........with more frequent oil changes.

https://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalAssets/pdfmb/serviceandparts/biodiesel_Brochure5.pdf

Reality check again:
Then there are no real published reports of any real issues...at least not here on forum. as opposed to issuee like EGR, DEF, Swirl valves that are often reported.



More reading https://www.eia.gov/conference/2014/pdf/presentations/woebkenberg.pdf

According to Federal regulations, if the pump is unlabeled, It is B5 or less. How well-enforced that is is a different question.

You may see anyone of these labels:







Story for the focus....web picture.

VietVet said:

Hi, New to the Forum,



I'm about to take delivery of a 2017 Navion 24J 6cy 3500 Sprinter. I'm getting cold feet because for the life of me I can't find ULS diesel or B5 fuel. I've looked online and it's mostly B18 and up. I know what MB warranty says so what are you guys out there doing? I planned on traveling between Florida and New Jersey, stations like Flying J, Love, TA, Shell are plentiful but the whole lot are B18 and up.



Is anyone out there running on these Bio's and what are you doing to protect your engines?



Thanks in advance

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All diesel sold for highway motor vehicles in the USA is ULS (Ultra Low Sulphur) diesel. Required by law some time ago.


- - Mike
2013 Airstream Interstate on 2012 Sprinter

Gentlemen,
Thank you for your responses but I have concern about putting out $95K for something I might not be warranted. As I mention to one the members who responded I called MB this morning and all I got was the same answer I got when I read the warranty. They are having a product specialist call me today or tomorrow to discuss the issue. You long time owners are probably thinking I'm making more out of this then I should but I hope you will place yourselves in my shoes? I'm a 100% disabled Vietnam Vet and have difficulties being mobile and you know you can only expect so much from our better halves. I have a Class A gasser and no problems whatsoever, with my physical problems I want to go down to a class C. I want to make this a pleasurable purchase and be one of the many on the Forum who rave about the Sprinter product. I joined here because quite frankly you guys are more informed then the salesman who sell these things. We (wife and I) fell in love with the damn thing and now very skeptical that we made the right move. I was online most of the evening trying to see where I could purchase fuel in accordance to MB. I scanned all the major truck stops thinking that would be the best location and the freshest of fuel by B18 was the lowest and the old grab bag B5 to B20.
If you guys or your buddies have any other suggestion please feel free to contact me.
Many Thanks to all who have answered.

I have no data.

I can't recall one post here where a warranty has been denied by MB as related to the use of commercially available bio diesel fuels in the USA or Canada.

My recollection is that the problem with higher percentage than B5 is that during DPF regenerations the bio fuel can get down into the sump and dilute the engine oil. I don't recall any other specific issues. That said, being a T1N owner it isn't a subject I worry about.

If you must use higher than B5 consistently, as was mentioned in a post above, more frequent oil changes address any engine oil dilution problems. I'm certain many NCV3 owners have tanked up on occasion with higher than B5 with no negative results.

My comments probably do little to reduce your concerns. Maybe a gas powered non-Sprinter RV conversion would be a better choice for you?

vic

Go to Gasbuddy. Look for the Top Tier fuel designation. You will find which stations are selling what grade. This goes for diesel too and not just gassers. It is my understanding that the Top Tier designation leaves no doubt about the quality of the fuel. Some of the independents are also Top Tier and some are not. That choice is yours to make. I used a non Top Tier local outlet for years with never a problem with my 06 diesel 2500 and for a couple of cents difference, I am now using the Top Tier fuels. Research this Top Tier designation for yourself and see if it relieves some concerns you may be having.

Happy trails and thanks for your service to our nation.

jcmadeintheshade@gmail.com said:

Go to Gasbuddy. Look for the Top Tier fuel designation. You will find which stations are selling what grade. This goes for diesel too...

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I use GasBuddy all the time and I cannot find any indication of diesel bio-content from the app or web site. Further I cannot find any direct documentation indicating the Top Tier designation applies to anything but gasoline.

Delivered fuel for 17 years now the same truck that dropped off at no name will drop off at your top tier This is only for diesel

Bry said:

Delivered fuel for 17 years now the same truck that dropped off at no name will drop off at your top tier This is only for diesel

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I totally believe that.

BUT, the other issues are sales volume (i.e., turnover) and tank condition. You can often get a good idea of these things by the general look of the place.

Absolutely correct you want to go to a station with a high turn over rate . Gets new fuel all the time . Like a truck stop

VietVet said:

Gentlemen,
Thank you for your responses but I have concern about putting out $95K for something I might not be warranted. As I mention to one the members who responded I called MB this morning and all I got was the same answer I got when I read the warranty. They are having a product specialist call me today or tomorrow to discuss the issue. You long time owners are probably thinking I'm making more out of this then I should but I hope you will place yourselves in my shoes? I'm a 100% disabled Vietnam Vet and have difficulties being mobile and you know you can only expect so much from our better halves. I have a Class A gasser and no problems whatsoever, with my physical problems I want to go down to a class C. I want to make this a pleasurable purchase and be one of the many on the Forum who rave about the Sprinter product. I joined here because quite frankly you guys are more informed then the salesman who sell these things. We (wife and I) fell in love with the damn thing and now very skeptical that we made the right move. I was online most of the evening trying to see where I could purchase fuel in accordance to MB. I scanned all the major truck stops thinking that would be the best location and the freshest of fuel by B18 was the lowest and the old grab bag B5 to B20.
If you guys or your buddies have any other suggestion please feel free to contact me.
Many Thanks to all who have answered.

Click to expand...

Well Bud ... I think you are worrying waaaay too much. It's a good question. Reasonable concern. There must be 10s of thousands of Sprinters out there since '07-'08 using > B5 ULSD. I got no data, but this site has had 100's more questions, concerns, answers over the issue than "documented" failures clearly tied to >> B5 use.

The practical advice is is to use B5 whenever and where ever possible. I'd not burn 1/2 tank of diesel looking for it. Just get what you can when you need fuel. Fill up. Drive on.

I try to use Shell when the RV is going to be laid up for awhile but sometimes Valero or Phillips. On the road...I grab what's handy.

As before, high veggie content may lead you to consider changing the oil more frequently.
Maybe 10K rather than the suggested 20k for newer models. If you,are on a steady diet of >>>> B5, think about an oil analysis @ 10K and see what's goin on. That said, the new specification oils are now formulated for increased resistance to dilution and bio-contamination so it may not be a problem.

I've been using the "5% - 20%" commercially available biodiesel in Illinois for years without issue over about 200,000 miles across 4 different diesel vehicles.

The anti-gel additive amount needs to be doubled compared to straight diesel.

There is essentially no choice but to use biodiesel here, certainly within the Chicago metropolitan area. If straight diesel is available, it is not even remotely convenient to obtain.

If commercially sold biodiesel is a legitimate problem, then Mercedes needs to either pull the Sprinter from the market or make it compliant with the commercially available fuels.

Interesting (to me) bit of trivia.

The 2011 and 2012 Sprinter owners manuals specifically caution about using fuel blends above B5. From 2013 onward it simply says dont use "bio-diesel" (among other fuels such as kerosene) without defining what is meant by bio-diesel.

In this undated brochure: https://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalAssets/pdfmb/serviceandparts/biodiesel_Brochure5.pdf M-B states:

"Regular Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) fuel meeting ASTM D975 can contain biodiesel up to 5%"

Then this:

"Only diesel with the ULSD label is approved (up to 5% biodiesel)". This is the standard green and white ULSD label.




And it states this:

"ULSD fuel meeting ASTM specification D7467 can contain biodiesel from 6% to 20%"

Then:

"B20 blends are generally not approved and should be only used on a very limited basis and only if unavoidable". This is a blue and black label.

It has been a year since I drove south (to NC, SC and Ga.) from New England but I had no trouble finding name brand (meaning names like Exxon, Shell, Sunoco) stations along the interstates selling what was labeled with the standard ULSD green/white label. We made our annual spring trip to the Outer Banks this past May and as usual didnt see any stations selling >B5 (per the pump labels). But then we werent looking at every station. Also, I usually stop at the same places each trip such as the service area station near the southern end of the NJTP and a Shell station on US158 in Barco, NC.

I too try to choose a station based on cleanliness and how busy they appear. And I avoid a station where the diesel pumps appear to be ancient pumps, filthy or overgrown and abandoned out back. Not just separate from the gas pumps, as often the separate island is placed for truckers and some places sell a lot of good fuel from these.

All that said, and knowing what I know now about the Sprinter and diesel fuel, I would probably avoid buying a vehicle with the new "clean" diesel technologies despite the superior fuel economy. In the US right now, it seems to be much less risky (from fuel selection to maintenance and repairs) to own and operate a gasoline engine powered vehicle.

I did notice a hit in MPG's using B20 blends. Best guess estimate was around 1-2 MPGs.

Vic

As a T1N owner as I am you don't worry about Putting B20 in your Sprinters? I to have tried to avoid B20 because of the softnen of the rubber seals. I also try to find b5 or better no bio but who knows what the deal of the week my be from the distributors. It's about profit not Sprinters. LOL. looking forward to your reply.
Thanks
RP
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