showkey

Well-known member
Same thing with the aftermarket metal turbo hose adapter ends for the V-6, until MB finally engineered a new hose. Since the rather common failure threw the vehicle into a limp home mode you'd think it would be a safety related recall.
Quote:

"This past January, nearly 270,000 Lexus IS models built between 2006 and early 2012 were recalled because a nut holding the windshield wiper arm had been "improperly torqued" during assembly. If wiper motion was "restricted by an external load, such as a buildup of heavy snow," Lexus said, the nut could come loose and render the wipers useless. The company found no related accidents or injuries from this defect, and in six years, roughly only 0.009 percent of owners reported it. After identifying the cause, parent company Toyota issued the recall."

Two things in play with the above Toyota example ..........wipers are a safety issue and must function 100% of the time to a certain level and any parts falling off the car is a safety issue and Toyota is no longer letting this type of things slip through the cracks.

Yes..........MB has way too many things that cause limp mode...........and it is surprising they have not been called out on it. Many manufacture no longer have any limp mode or it is limited to areas like transmission where the car can be moved out of bad situation in a fixed gear. The EGR problem causing limp mode with no CEL is crazy even with the CEL on EGR should never cause the engine to loose power.

With a the new found business of class actions.........the warranty period no longer applies and less than perfect products have been targeted.........we have talked about other manufactures having to fix window regulators on 10 year old cars as an example......there are dozens of other examples. Warranty extensions of certain items are the common solution for the manufactures along with paying for past repairs no matter where the repairs were done.

YES .........the horse is dead and we can stoping the beating...........
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
The EGR problem causing limp mode with no CEL is crazy even with the CEL on EGR should never cause the engine to loose power.
Once you have had a limp home mode occur just after passing cars on a two lane road, your confidence level about the vehicle deteriorates. Makes one look for a different brand vehicle. Nice to save the engine but I do not like the idea of the vehicle trying to kill you and others.
 

showkey

Well-known member
Once you have had a limp home mode occur just after passing cars on a two lane road, your confidence level about the vehicle deteriorates. Makes one look for a different brand vehicle. Nice to save the engine but I do not like the idea of the vehicle trying to kill you and others.

No EGR or too much EGR is not going destroy or even damage the engine especially short term.
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
After the loss of power I turned 08 Sprinter off and then had normal operation. EGR was replaced under warranty.

Did get my attention and now I always wonder if it will do it again at the wrong time.
 

flman

Roadrunner, Genius of Birds ALWAYS WINS! NO FAILS!
Once you have had a limp home mode occur just after passing cars on a two lane road, your confidence level about the vehicle deteriorates. Makes one look for a different brand vehicle. Nice to save the engine but I do not like the idea of the vehicle trying to kill you and others.
No EGR or too much EGR is not going destroy or even damage the engine especially short term.
I thought Dave pointed out, that he would rather see the engine die then him and others, the engine is not his priority? For that matter, the engine is a notch below my life as well.
 

sajohnson

'09 View/08 3500 chassis
Re: Mercedes needs better plastic.

Same thing with the aftermarket metal turbo hose adapter ends for the V-6, until MB finally engineered a new hose. Since the rather common failure threw the vehicle into a limp home mode you'd think it would be a safety related recall.

With many/most of auto mfrs it would have resulted in a proactive voluntary recall.

I'm amazed by Mercedes-Benz' apparent lack of concern for their customers -- at least those who own Sprinter vans and cab-chassis.

I'm not familiar with how MB handles similar problems with their passenger cars. I assume they treat those customers better, because their competition certainly does. From my post above:

""This past January, nearly 270,000 Lexus IS models built between 2006 and early 2012 were recalled because a nut holding the windshield wiper arm had been "improperly torqued" during assembly. If wiper motion was "restricted by an external load, such as a buildup of heavy snow," Lexus said, the nut could come loose and render the wipers useless. The company found no related accidents or injuries from this defect, and in six years, roughly only 0.009 percent of owners reported it. After identifying the cause, parent company Toyota issued the recall."

If MB wants to be competitive in their market segment, they must follow Lexus' lead. Again, perhaps they do for their passenger cars and the Sprinter is seen as a different market -- one that can be ignored.
 

showkey

Well-known member
I thought Dave pointed out, that he would rather see the engine die then him and others, the engine is not his priority? For that matter, the engine is a notch below my life as well.

Missing the point............I agree with you......my point there should be no reason for the engine management system to go in limp mode because EGR is malfunctioning and I agree it is a safety hazard and it is surprise MB would design the system in such a way. And many other manufacture have no limp modes or very limited limp situations.

My statement was meant that EGR is not that important that it demands limp mode and if it malfunctions the engine management system should turn on the CEL and run as close to normal power as before the problem........like most other codes. When EGR malfunctions the engine is no real danger........:thumbup:
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
<snip>
My statement was meant that EGR is not that important that it demands limp mode and if it malfunctions the engine management system should turn on the CEL and run as close to normal power as before the problem........like most other codes. When EGR malfunctions the engine is no real danger........:thumbup:
I agree. It goes into limp to reduce the environmental impact of a malfunctioning EGR system....

-Jon
 

DennisV

New member
Once you have had a limp home mode occur just after passing cars on a two lane road, your confidence level about the vehicle deteriorates. Makes one look for a different brand vehicle. Nice to save the engine but I do not like the idea of the vehicle trying to kill you and others.
I had a 07 VW Passat 2.0L Turbo DI do this very thing to me.
A worn cam follower for the high pressure DI pump caused a drop in pressure and the damn thing went limp while I was passing on a two lane highway. High pucker factor.

Turned on me like a rabid doberman.

Drove it from the dealer repair shop straight to a Honda dealer and put it down . . .
 

sajohnson

'09 View/08 3500 chassis
Hey! I own a WRX and I say Subaru is perfect in every way. All hail the Subaru god! Cast out the infidels complaining about excessive oil consumption! They are malcontents who just like to whine. They probably didn't change the oil, or ran without an air filter...

<j/k>

It sounds like SOA is screwed. Their own TSBs admit there is a problem with excessive oil consumption due to the oil rings wearing prematurely.

Seems kinda open and shut to me.

What a nightmare for Subaru. There's no way they can afford to repair or replace all of those engines. It will be interesting to see how this all pans out.
 

diesl

New member
All cars have their problems. Back in 1981, I bought a Mercedes 240D. It was still under warranty when I noticed the dash was bent from excessive force driving in the glove box holder. I thought surely a Mercedes could not let this go without repair so I tried the dealer first who referred me to the factory rep. The rep completely ignored me by saying something like people pay a high price for a Mercedes then want it all back. I still have that car and I must say it has been the most inexpensive car I have ever owned. The only parts other than tires, oil and batteries was a glow plug relay about 15 years ago. So I guess the bottom line is that the big picture is most important. If you can drive a sprinter for 400,000 miles which some would say high repair costs, how far can a Ford transit be driven for the same costs or would it even still be on the road at 400,000 mi?
 

sajohnson

'09 View/08 3500 chassis
All cars have their problems. Back in 1981, I bought a Mercedes 240D. It was still under warranty when I noticed the dash was bent from excessive force driving in the glove box holder. I thought surely a Mercedes could not let this go without repair so I tried the dealer first who referred me to the factory rep. The rep completely ignored me by saying something like people pay a high price for a Mercedes then want it all back. I still have that car and I must say it has been the most inexpensive car I have ever owned. The only parts other than tires, oil and batteries was a glow plug relay about 15 years ago. So I guess the bottom line is that the big picture is most important. If you can drive a sprinter for 400,000 miles which some would say high repair costs, how far can a Ford transit be driven for the same costs or would it even still be on the road at 400,000 mi?
Good point diesl.

A couple thoughts:

1) Most people would be happy to have the problems you've had with your 1981 240D. That is a very good car, made back in the day when MB was the gold standard for reliability. I recall seeing a MB sedan (likely a 240D) in Madison, WI around that time that was being used as a taxi. It had a magnetic sign on the side that said it had over 1 million miles on the original drivetrain and that it was in the Guiness Book of World Records. I didn't doubt it for a second. Those things were/are bullet-proof.

2) Sadly, it sounds like even back then MB was stiff-arming their customers. It seems to me like you had a legitimate concern/problem and they blew you off. Sounds familiar.

3) You're absolutely right, the big picture is important. I would suggest though that we can always point to another vehicle(s) that is worse in any number of ways. That doesn't make design/engineering flaws acceptable.

4) Having a bent dash (or even faulty Y cable; carrier bearing; and/or turbo hose) is nothing compared to what these Subaru customers are dealing with. I believe the article said that some owners had paid $8,000 to have the rings replaced (and whatever else needed to be done). That's serious money.

5) "GP" or general principles. If someone owes you money, they should pay you, period -- not claim, "C'mon diesl, it's only $2/$20/$200 -- what's the big deal?! Over the course of your expected lifetime that's only pennies a day!" When we get change at the grocery store, we expect to receive all of our change -- not just 'close enough, call it good'. Maybe some of these issues are relatively small in the overall scheme of things -- especially when the cost is spread out over 400,000 miles. That doesn't change the fact that MB made rookie mistakes when designing the Sprinter -- mistakes which ethically they should pay for, not their customers.
 

sajohnson

'09 View/08 3500 chassis
Limp Home Mode potentially dangerous

I found the following post from Jim Riordan on another forum:

~~~~~

Dear fellow Sprinter owners. Several instances of Sprinter Turbo Resonator failures have occurred in which the vehicle has gone into Limp Home� mode going up steep hills, which resulted in the vehicle slowing abruptly and almost being hit from behind by a following vehicle. In at least two cases that we are aware of, the following vehicle was an 18 wheeler traveling at highway speeds. In this failure mode, the Sprinter slows to a crawl almost immediately with no visible warning, because the BRAKE LIGHTS DID NOT COME ON. Typically, the driver has his or her foot on the gas pedal.

What we have just learned is that this same situation can occur even if the resonator does not fail. If the intake hose, which is under high boost pressure, suddenly pops off� the stock resonator (or pops off� the Riordanco billet aluminum resonator eliminator), the effect on the vehicle is exactly the same as a resonator failure.

In one instance reported to us, a dealer had just replaced a stock resonator with another stock resonator. The Intake hose popped off� the turbo resonator not long after leaving the shop and the vehicle was nearly rear-ended. Upon investigation and review we duplicated this problem in our shop. We discovered that as the tightening screw advances along a series of indented� grooves in the clamp strap� it is possible when re-using this type of clamp for the screw to deform the indented grooves in a manner that prevents the clamp from tightening fully, while at the same time, providing a false sense of tightness.� Literally, the clamp can be tightened as hard as you can turn it and it can still be loose enough to allow the intake hose to pop off�, under boost pressure, which is quickly followed by a whoosing� sound of rushing air from the passenger side of the engine and then the vehicle immediately slows down into Limp Home� mode.

You may wish to use an Ideal� brand clamp; 3/4 inch-to-2-3/4 inch stainless steel worm drive� screw clamp available at most automotive or hardware stores instead. These clamps have actual SLOTS for the screw to grip through, instead of the indented grooves� found on the stock clamp and they do not give a false sense of tightness. On our own Sprinter we have installed TWO of these clamps, one behind the other. Hope this helps you prevent this problem in advance., Best regards, Jim Riordan

~~~~~

This is clearly a serious problem. LHM can be triggered by any number of issues -- one of which is the poorly designed turbo hose rupturing.

When a vehicle slows significantly for any reason the brake lights should illuminate. That's safety 101.

If a vehicle had a flaw which caused the brake lights to not always illuminate when the brake pedal is depressed that would be grounds for an immediate recall.
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
If you can drive a sprinter for 400,000 miles which some would say high repair costs, how far can a Ford transit be driven for the same costs or would it even still be on the road at 400,000 mi?
Big "if". Why would the Sprinter drive further than the Transit?
 

ronrus30

New member
I know this a long thread about a variety of expensive and not so expensive repairs. I think you should know about my recent experience. I have a 2006 Itasca Navion. The day it crossed 30,000 miles (not a typo) the transmission failed with no warning. The fluid level had been checked at the 20,000 service. Of course, there is not a dipstick or transmission temperature gauge to know of there is a problem.

After being towed in, Mercedes made a token offer of discounting one of their over $6,000 reman transmissions by $800 but I would have to wait 2 weeks in a motel for it to arrive from Germany. I declined. I found a company in Oklahoma who offered one for much less and it was shipped the day I called- total cost of installation was $3,700 plus 8 days in a motel. The credit card bill of $4,650 is due today so I am not in a good mood.

I wrote a letter to the Mercedes HQ in New Jersey detailing what happened. Yesterday a woman with a very young voice called and said Mercedes' previous offer was the best they could do. I intend to follow-up more on what can be done.
 

sailquik

Well-known member
Ronrus30,
Was the drain plug damaged or something?
Where did the 9 quarts of transmission fluid go?
Have you always stored your RV in the same place for the last years?
Was there no stain of transmission fluid under the Sprinter where it was stored?
Is there transmission fluid blown all under the rear of the RV from it leaking out all at once while you were driving?
Was your RV always badged as a Mercedes Benz, or was it a Dodge or Freightliner when you purchased it new?
I totally agree that losing a transmission @ 30K miles is particularly bad and paying the bill very uncomfortable.
If it was a Dodge or Freightliner, have you checked with those companies on any warranty?
Roger
 

ronrus30

New member
Sailquik,

You raise some very good questions, something I hoped would happen when I posted it. It was badged as a Dodge and I intend to talk to them as well. What times I have talked with them about getting service in the past or finding a Dodge dealership anywhere near where I was in New York State when it broke down has not been productive. I was towed to a Mercedes dealership who said they could install the new transmission so I started there.

I bought the motorhome when it had less than 21,000 miles on it from an RV dealer. I have all of the maintenance records for the 10,000 and 20,000 services. It says the fluid level was checked.

When it failed, I did not see any evidence of fluid leaking when I looked underneath the motorhome. I did not see any leaks when I was parked at any campground for the 2 months I had been using the motorhome. I would have noticed that for sure? When a dipstick became available before it was towed, the level was so low it did not register on it. I do not know where the fluid went, if it was actually in there in the first place.

I find it very odd that there was no warning. I was driving on Interstate 87 pulling a hill when suddenly the engine starting revving for no reason. I could barely get it over to the shoulder. The mechanic at the Mercedes dealership said what fluid there was was almost black and there were a lot of metal shavings in the bottom.
 

flman

Roadrunner, Genius of Birds ALWAYS WINS! NO FAILS!
Sailquik,

You raise some very good questions, something I hoped would happen when I posted it. It was badged as a Dodge and I intend to talk to them as well. What times I have talked with them about getting service in the past or finding a Dodge dealership anywhere near where I was in New York State when it broke down has not been productive. I was towed to a Mercedes dealership who said they could install the new transmission so I started there.

I bought the motorhome when it had less than 21,000 miles on it from an RV dealer. I have all of the maintenance records for the 10,000 and 20,000 services. It says the fluid level was checked.

When it failed, I did not see any evidence of fluid leaking when I looked underneath the motorhome. I did not see any leaks when I was parked at any campground for the 2 months I had been using the motorhome. I would have noticed that for sure? When a dipstick became available before it was towed, the level was so low it did not register on it. I do not know where the fluid went, if it was actually in there in the first place.

I find it very odd that there was no warning. I was driving on Interstate 87 pulling a hill when suddenly the engine starting revving for no reason. I could barely get it over to the shoulder. The mechanic at the Mercedes dealership said what fluid there was was almost black and there were a lot of metal shavings in the bottom.
It was probably lost through the notorious electrical connector leak. It is not if it will leak, it is when.

I noticed when I did not drive my older Sprinter for a couple of months, the leak occurred, so with an RV I am sure it gets the same down time.
 

sailquik

Well-known member
ronrus30,
I've pasted in your last post here and will respond to each paragraph.
It appears that your original posts may have mislead some of us into thinking you were the original owner and that your Sprinter RV was only serviced at authorized dealerships.
Is the maintenance log book fully filled in for the 10K and 20k services......and who did the work?
Authorized Mercedes Benz/Dodge/Freightliner dealers....or somewhere else like an RV dealer.

You raise some very good questions, something I hoped would happen when I posted it.
You're welcome on this!

It was badged as a Dodge and I intend to talk to them as well.
I was never too happy with the Dodge folks as they were notorious for putting in non-approved by Mercedes fluids.
The attitude seemed to be "if it's good enough for Dodge pickups it should work just fine in a Sprinter.
I only dealt with them a few times and it did not turn out real well when I asked for warranty repairs on my 2006
T1N 3500. At first it was great, but once they knew that Mercedes was taking over it got really bad.


What times I have talked with them about getting service in the past or finding a Dodge dealership anywhere near where I was in New York State when it broke down has not been productive. I was towed to a Mercedes dealership who said they could install the new transmission so I started there.
OK, I understand this. Mercedes really had no obligation (other than they designed and built it) as the warranty was with Chrysler Corporation/Dodge division. Your RV is way past warranty on time, even though you have very low mileage.

I bought the motorhome when it had less than 21,000 miles on it from an RV dealer. I have all of the maintenance records for the 10,000 and 20,000 services. It says the fluid level was checked.
Maybe the fluid was checked, may be not. No one will ever know at this point.
I would be talking to the RV dealer who sold you this RV....they may have more culpability than Mercedes?
Where were these services performed, and did the technicians sign off in the maintenance log book?


When it failed, I did not see any evidence of fluid leaking when I looked underneath the motorhome. I did not see any leaks when I was parked at any campground for the 2 months I had been using the motorhome. I would have noticed that for sure? When a dipstick became available before it was towed, the level was so low it did not register on it. I do not know where the fluid went, if it was actually in there in the first place.
Very good questions! Do you still have the old transmission somewhere for analysis?
It would be interesting to see if there was any damage to the trans pan.
In the 9k miles you put on the RV did you ever have it jacked up or put on a rack for any reason?


I find it very odd that there was no warning. I was driving on Interstate 87 pulling a hill when suddenly the engine starting revving for no reason.
What gear were you in when pulling up this hill? 5th overdrive or 4th 1:1?
I do not think I've ever heard of a trans fluid level sensor in the 5G-Tronic/NAG-1 transmission, so it's very possible there would not be a warning, but if 9 quarts of fluid leaked out quickly there surely would be evidence sprayed around behind the transmission and under the rear of the RV.
You would think that you would have smelled something hot if it all leaked out and sprayed on the exhaust system components.


I could barely get it over to the shoulder. The mechanic at the Mercedes dealership said what fluid there was almost black and there were a lot of metal shavings in the bottom.
If you have the failed transmission somewhere it would be interesting to send it to someone like Silver Star for an autopsy.
Since you most likely had to send to original transmission back to Silver Star as a core you might follow up with them to see if they saw any
trans pan damage, drain plug damage, was the electrical connector leaking, things like that?

I know it does not help your situation at all, and I do feel for you. You thought you bought something good and it failed prematurely....that sucks!
Perhaps the moral of this story is that if you purchase a used Sprinter or Sprinter based RV it would be smart to take it to a fully authorized Mercedes Benz Sprinter dealer (regardless of the original badging as the Sprinter commercial dealers work on all year models and badges as they
just consider them older Sprinters or newer style Sprinters) and have ALL the fluids..(I.E. engine oil, transmission fluid, brake fluid, engine coolant,
rear differential fluid) changed out completely and the trans pan removed and the filter changed as well plus have the torque convertor drained out as well.
Yes, this would be costly....maybe $1500....but the peace of mind knowing that you have all the right fluids in all the correct amounts would save a lot of stress and $$ down the road in most cases.
Hope this helps,
Roger
 
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