O2 Sensor Selection OEM or other?

2012/12/08 Edit:

Aqua Puttana said:

Update.

I see that the Bosch #17019 direct replacement is still available on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-17019-O...8&qid=1417872331&sr=8-1&keywords=Bosch+#17019

$104.00 as of this edit. $119.98 20170728

Europarts-SD also sell the Bosch OEM style O2 sensor.

http://europarts-sd.com/sensor-oxygen2004-2009.asp

It would take special circumstances for me to not buy and install a Bosch O2 sensor should I need one. I would not hesitate to reuse my old cable with a new spliced in less expensive sensor body as is described earlier in this thread. Just be certain to keep the splice connections protected from the weather. FWIW.

The alternate Bosch O2 sensors spliced to the OEM connector give more choices if the OEM style sensor isn't available.

vic

Click to expand...

2011/01/11 edit:
O2 Sensor parts information

I brought this back (up?) from post #19 to save people wading through the thread. Post #7 has the "Teacup Cleaning" procedure if you're interested. DELETED

I added some Sprinter specific O2 sensor technical info in post #19 also.

***
From Post #19

I'm replacing the O2 sensor on my 2004. Here's some part numbers I believe are all plug and play for NAFTA 2001 - 2006 5 cylinder. Most were found compatible under multiple sites. I figure this list may help someone who is broken down and has only local parts stores to check. On-line it's possible to stay around $100.00 with shipping. Local store prices will likely be higher. FWIW. vic

Delphi ES10928 Oxygen Sensor
Edit: I just installed one of these. (C# ES10928 IO#ES10928-11B1) Plugged right in. Seems OK after just 50 miles. About 75 bucks from Amazon w/ shipping. For that price I wouldn't have done my Teacup Cleaning, but that did extend the useful life of the other one. It looks physically very much the same. I guess only time will tell about Delphi quality. The removed one was MB 003 542 71 18.

20111209 update: The Delphi sensor began giving O2 plausibility codes so I replaced it with another Delphi. After a short time that one began putting me into LHM with Mass Air related DTC. I now have a Bosch 17019 Oxygen Sensor on order installed and working fine.

Bosch 17019 Oxygen Sensor


NTK #24332

Walker 250-25016 Five Wire Oxygen Sensor

Walker 250-25045 Oxygen Sensor

AC Delco 213-3934 Oxygen Sensor

AC Delco #2134639 (#19239907)

NGK 24315 Oxygen Sensor - NGK/NTK Packaging

Denso #2345091

Airtex/Wells #5S7036

OEM# 003 542 71 18 (or 35427118?)


***
2011/02/14 edit: Back from a trip to Florida. The Delphi #ES10928 O2 Sensor seems fine. A partial tank mpg calculation driving in the Keys brought 25.4 mpg. Another calculation was from the tip of Florida to Niagara Falls via Columbia, SC; Charlotte, NC; Pittsburgh, PA; etc. So that means it included lots of mountain driving at posted speeds of 55 - 70 mph gauged by GPS and still yielded 22.45 mpg.

That mpg calculation is fairly accurate because I was trying to hit good fuel prices so it's based upon one top off in 69 gallons/1547 miles by recording interim fills so the "is the tank topped off the same each time" factor is minimal. We didn't always hit good prices. They ranged from 3.21 to 3.69 per gallon.

A word to the wise, there were police watching everywhere with many perpetrators seen pulled over. Speeding tickets are now apparently an important income stream.

So anyway, the Delphi O2 sensor doesn't seem to hurt mpg in my case.
***

Original thread starts here:

For a reasonable priced splice in Bosch alternative that will work go to Post #24

I did some searches and didn't find any comments on whether non-OEM O2 sensors are worth using on a 2004 Sprinter. My trusted Dodge mechanic has said they have had bad luck with non-OEM sensors when they have had delivery issues from their stock supplier and tried to substitute, but he admits that's on Dodge products. He has not installed an O2 sensor on a Sprinter yet. I'm hoping there is some experience to be found here.

My engine graphic MIL (Malfunction Indicator Light) comes on. I'm showing a DTC P2A00 on my Actron CP9175 OBD2 Autoscanner. That translates to a description of "O2 Circuit Range / Performance (Bank 1, Sensor 1)". I can't find that as a Sprinter DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code). When I entered some of the O2 codes shown on the DTC pdf file from the T1N Database link:
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8530&d=1215049197 the definitions which the Actron responded don't match. I have sent a question to Actron regarding that discrepancy. I would do further testing before replacing the O2 sensor regardless.


This is what I've found for available parts so far:

OEM O2 sensor from Dodge dealer is approx. $250.00

$56.95 Bosch W0133-1613039
2011/01/11 edit: Price went up! Please note that this is specified as "Image is not vehicle specific" so it may not have the correct connector? Splicing may be necessary?
http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/2004/dodge/sprinter_2500/fuel_injection/oxygen_sensor.html

$199.00 Bosch BSH 17019
2011/01/11 edit: new link.
http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?R=BSA17019_0295734177

$257.51 Denso 234-5091
http://www.discountautoparts.com/item.wws?sku=234-5091&itempk=328512&mfr=DENSO&weight=2

There are even cheaper "replacement" O2 sensors that have wires that need to be spliced, but I listed the ones that appear to be ready to plug right in to the Sprinter.

This is just a generic information link on using OBD2 readers for testing O2 sensors
http://www.ideamarketers.com/?Oxygen_sensor_testing_using_OBD2&articleid=393366

There is quite a difference in price between the Bosch W0133-1613039 and Bosch BSH 17019. That seems odd. Do you really get what you pay for? Why have such a cheaper alternative?

My questions are:
Has anyone used other than OEM MB/Dodge O2 sensors on a 2004 (647) era Sprinter?
Are either of the Bosch O2 sensors worth installing?
Who makes the OEM Sprinter O2 sensors? Bosch? Denso? Other?
Anyone have a picture of the O2 sensor location? (I apologize for being so lazy, but you guys have such great pictures.)

Photo of O2 sensor courtesy Autostarex Dick.



If this has been discussed before please supply the link because I didn't find it. Thanks in advance. vic

The 2004 Service Manual lists the following P-codes for the Oxygen sensors,
and does -not- have P2A00 listed:

P2038-O2 SENSOR CIRCUIT FAULT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .120
P2057-O2 SENSOR SIGNAL CIRCUIT SIGNAL VOLTAGE TOO HIGH . . . . . . . . . . .120
P2058-O2 SENSOR SIGNAL CIRCUIT SIGNAL VOLTAGE TOO HIGH . . . . . . . . . . .120
P2059-O2 SENSOR SIGNAL CIRCUIT SIGNAL VOLTAGE TOO HIGH . . . . . . . . . . .120
P2090-O2 SENSOR PLAUSIBILITY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .120
P2090-O2 SENSOR SIGNAL FAULT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .120
P2091-O2 SENSOR LOW O2 CONCENTRATION . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .120
P2091-O2 SENSOR SIGNAL PLAUSIBILITY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .120
P2195-O2 SENSOR HEATER CIRCUIT FAULT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .120
P2353-O2 SENSOR PLAUSIBILITY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .120
P2366-O2 CIRCUIT FAULT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .120
(the ...120 is the page reference in the Powertrain diagnostics manual)

The diagnostic steps on page 120 (and following) are:
(a) check the wiring and connectors
(b) unplug the O2 sensor and verify that 12v is appearing on pin 4 of the cable harness
(c) check resistances ("cavity" is "connector pin"):
Turn the ignition off.
Disconnect the O2 Sensor harness connector.
Disconnect the ECM harness connectors.
Perform the following resistance measurements from the O2 harness connector to the
ECM harness connector.
O2 Sensor Cavity 1 to ECM Cavity C1-15.
O2 Sensor Cavity 2 to ECM Cavity C1-40.
O2 Sensor Cavity 3 to ECM Cavity C1-72.
O2 Sensor Cavity 5 to ECM Cavity C1-62.
O2 Sensor Cavity 6 to ECM Cavity C1-39.
Is the resistance below 10.0 ohms for each measurement?
Yes ! Go To (d)
No ! Repair the circuit(s) that measured above 10.0 ohms for an open
(d) more resistances:
Measure the resistance between ground and O2 Sensor harness connector cavities 1,
2, 3, 5, and 6.
Is the resistance above 1000 ohms for each measurement?
All
Yes ! Go To (e)
No! Repair the circuit(s) that measured below 1000 ohms for a short to ground.
(e) Disconnect the O2 Sensor harness connector.
Disconnect the ECM harness connectors.
NOTE: The circuits connecting the O2 Sensor and the ECM are single
circuits and do not contain any splices. There should be NO continuity from
one circuit to the other.
Using an ohmmeter, check the O2 Sensor circuits for shorts together (resistance
below 1000 ohms)..
Is the resistance from any O2 Sensor circuit to another below 1000 ohms?
All
Yes ! Repair the circuits that measured below 1000 ohms for a short
together.
Perform ROAD TEST VERIFICATION - VER-2.
No ! Go To (f)
(f) Turn the ignition off.
Disconnect the O2 Sensor harness connector.
Disconnect the ECM harness connectors.
Remove the Engine Control Relay.
Connect a jumper wire between cavity 30 and cavity 87 of the Engine Control Relay
connector.
Turn the ignition on.
Measure the voltage of O2 Sensor harness connector cavities 1, 2, 3, 5, and 6.
Is the voltage below 1.0 volts for each measurement?
All
Yes ! Go To (g)
No ! Repair the circuit(s) that measured below 1000 ohms for a short to
voltage.
Perform ROAD TEST VERIFICATION - VER-2.
(g) Turn the ignition off.
Replace the O2 Sensor in accordance with the Service Information.
Turn the ignition on.
With the DRBIIIt, erase the ECM DTCs.
Test drive the vehicle.
With the DRBIIIt, read the ECM DTCs.
Did this DTC set again?
All
Yes ! Replace the ECM in accordance with the Service Information.
Perform ROAD TEST VERIFICATION - VER-2.
No ! Test Complete.
---------------

If you Reset the MIL, and it -doesn't- come on again, then:

(h) WARNING: WHEN THE ENGINE IS OPERATING, DO NOT STAND IN A
DIRECT LINE WITH THE FAN. DO NOT PUT YOUR HANDS NEAR THE
PULLEYS, BELTS OR FAN. DO NOT WEAR LOOSE CLOTHING.
NOTE: The conditions that set the DTC are not present at this time. The
following list may help in identifying the intermittent condition.
With the engine running at normal operating temperature, monitor the DRB
parameters related to the DTC while wiggling the wiring harness. Look for parameter
values to change and/or a DTC to set.
Review the DTC When Monitored and Set Conditions. If possible, try to duplicate the
conditions under which the DTC was set.
Refer to any Technical Service Bulletins (TSB) that may apply.
Visually inspect the related wiring harness. Look for any chafed, pierced, pinched, or
partially broken wires.
Visually inspect the related wiring harness connectors. Look for broken, bent, pushed
out, or corroded terminals.
Were any of the above conditions present?
All
Yes ! Repair as necessary.
Perform ROAD TEST VERIFICATION - VER-2.
No ! Test Complete.
=================

So sayeth the Service Manual...

good luck
--dick

The 647 Sprinter features a Bosch (OEM) 5 wire, wideband O2 sensor. The Bosch short number is 17019 which is reflected in the NAPA part number (and price). The wholesale jobber cost of this sensor from Bosch is about $175. This gives you an indication of the slim mark-up quoted by NAPA. It also reveals your other Bosch source at $56 is not the correct sensor.

The sensor is located under the waffle pattern aluminum heat shield you see up top in your engine compartment and is just downstream of the turbo in the exhaust down pipe.

5 wire sensors have internal heaters for rapid activation after a cold start. This heater is activated by the fused (fuse #17) engine control relay-hence the relay terminal jumper reference in Dicks troubleshooting reprint from the tech manual.

BTW, that troubleshooting sequence is solely concerned with finding faults in the wiring harness. It provides no direct way of testing the sensor. It is meant solely to exclude harness issues when a O2 sensor DTC exists-then the DTC is used to justify replacement of sensor.

In your case-verify the actual DTC with a DRBIII. Don't replace an expensive O2 sensor because of a code misinterpretation.

Avoid the bargain basement alternatives. Most don't even attempt to match the number of wires available for splicing! Doktor A

These replies are exactly the info I was looking for. Maybe it will help others in the future too.

After using my friends DRBIII for verification I'll most likely just get the OEM sensor from the dealership. The $56.00 unit would have made me go elsewhere, but they're in the ballpark now with price. Thanks for all the info. vic

I am somewhat curious about that $56 Bosch sensor. The sensor housing appears to be that of a expensive wide band sensor but it's clear from the link photo that its harness and especially the elec connector are not Sprinter compatible.

BTW, your dealer supplied sensor will have a small MBenz part number etched on its housing in addition to the Bosch markings. Bosch as an aftermarket supplier, is not permitted to use that number on its Bosch boxed sensor- otherwise they are identical.

Also, don't panic when you inspect the connector plug. The connector has 6 pins with only 5 wires coming from the O2 sensor. If I recall correctly, the 6th pin is a vehicle harness embedded inline resistor. Doktor A

Doktor A,
As I'm sure you know many of the websites say that the photos may not be identical to the actual product, but let's hope that doesn't apply here. As long as you're curious, I did a search under "W0133-1613039 data". Does this link help any?

http://www.drivewire.com/vehicle/mercedes-clk-class/oxygen-sensor/

If you click on "Load Fitment" in green on different hits that I checked it indicates W0133-1613039 fits the MB models: 2006 CLK350, 2006 E350 4Matic, 2006 C230 and the 2008 S63 AMG. Seems to at least have common MB roots if that info is accurate.

It sure would be worth it if the existing connector could be chopped off a $56.00 unit and the OEM Sprinter connector installed to fit.

Thanks for showing the interest. vic

I got my answer from Actron. Very quick response. This is basically what they replied:

There are several redundant codes for the O2 sensors. Please look at this link from Dodge:

http://dodgeforum.com/forum/dodge-cummins-diesel/146363-mil-code-p2a00.html

The P2A00 code is listed there.

I found a suggestion for cleaning O2 sensors elsewhere. Let me say first that I've already had a few funny looks from other mechanics when I mentioned this to them.

DELETED

... I'll keep y'all informed as to future results. ***Deleted bcause results are questionable.***

Wow.... the principle of tune-up in a cup, on a safer, smaller scale..... I hope the fix sticks for ya.

I'm glad to read you got your Sprinter on the road again.

I can't help but notice Actron cited a URL that includes

//dodgeforum.com
forum/
dodge-cummins-diesel/
146363-mil-code-p2a00.html


... and they seem to refer to it as "Dodge," authoritatively; and dodgeforum.com is not a domain owned by Chrysler.

I know that most of the codes are supposed to be standardized, and honestly I haven't dug deeply into DTCs, but I'd like to know - just for kicks - if Actron employees believe you're powered by Cummins.

... or did I misread your post?





-Jon

Jon,
That's a good point. As the MIL light came on and there was the O2 sensor code I didn't consider it much further after that list. I know there is a specific card that is needed for the DRBIII to access a Sprinter, but I thought that was for the CAN bus access. (Any info DoktorA?) Maybe my Actron unit really isn't good for Sprinter codes? That'd be a bummer.

I guess the cleaning procedure is very similar to Tuneup in a Cup at that.

I'll reply to Actron and remind them that it is a Mercedes Benz engine. Thanks for the reply. vic

This is the answer from Actron.
*******
"Dear Customer,

The CP9175 performs a global request for codes. Some diesel vehicles and vehicles over 8500 lbs GVWR are exempt from certain OBD II regulations and may require a tool with Enhanced capabilities. Unfortunately, we do not have Chrysler diesel or Mercedes specific (enhanced) support. [Actron replied late in 2008.]

This vehicle is reporting this code as a response to a global request for DTC's. The best way to verify if the vehicle is reporting a true code is to try another tool and compare results or check with the manufacturer."
*******

I didn't know that diesels were exempt from OBD II regulations. Another reason to buy a Scangauge when money frees up.

20110511 edit:
Turns out a Scangauge II is just a fancier OBDII scan/interface tool. If you are a gadget person it apparently does have some nice features to enhance your driving and fuel economy, but for reading codes it is still a basic generic OBDII unit. YMMV. vic

So far my O2 sensor cleaning experiment has kept the MIL light off. Four days now and fingers crossed. I've done quite a bit of varied driving including freeway speeds, but time will tell. I now regret not getting the specific codes from my friend's DRBIII. If the steam cleaning works it would have been nice to know what specific codes were actually thrown.

Aqua Puttana said:

Jon,
I know there is a specific card that is needed for the DRBIII to access a Sprinter, but I thought that was for the CAN bus access. (Any info DoktorA?)

Click to expand...

The Sprinter specific memory card and the Sprinter/Crossfire specific multiplex cable (for these 2 German k-line based diagnostic applications) are needed for DRBIII access on the '02-'06 Sprinter.

See my 'for sale' listing on this site.

The '02-'06 Sprinter does not utilize CAN based diagnostics. The '07 and up Sprinters utilize CAN diagnostics and require a StarMobile or StarScan tool. The CAN protocol will be modified on the '09 model and beyond. Doktor A

I don't know if it's a CAN artifact or not, but my Sprinter stores codes for a very long time - even if they don't set off any lights on the instrument cluster.


If codes are stored for a long time on your T1N, you still might be able to capture them with your friend's DRBIII.

-Jon

My MIL has not shown an O2 problem for a week now after steam cleaning the O2 sensor. Prior to the cleaning the O2 MIL code would come back in a very short time and always within the day of reset. While the O2 MIL was coming back my mpg dropped to about 21 lightly loaded. I just filled my tank and I'm back up to 24.5 mpg with a mix of city and highway miles.

I hope I don't jinx myself by declaring a victory, but the cleaning of the O2 sensor seems to have been a success. The cleaning is certainly not something a professional would try on a customer vehicle, but I'd say it's worth trying as a DIY fix. I think the hooded design of the sensor tip may help from overheating the actual sensor tip unless you're really aggressive with the torch. Only time will tell whether it's a long term fix.

I found an offset oxygen sensor wrench (socket type) at Harbor Freight for 5 bucks. Not the best quality steel I'm sure. I thought it was worth the investment.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=97177

Hope this helps. vic

I've been waiting to get a long highway trip under my belt to further report on my O2 sensor cleaning. The original MIL O2 code surfaced on a long trip.

The codes have not surfaced during mixed driving since my last report. We drove 1100 miles over the night and I'm happy to report that the O2 sensor MIL did not come back. Our mileage was around 21.5 to 22.5 mpg in mountain driving. 23.5 when we got to flatter terrain. Moderate load in the back, 65 - 70 mph speeds. No trailer. The O2 sensor cleaning seems to have done the job.

I had my buddy check codes with the DRBIII when he reset my ASSYST. The only codes he found were over current related to my intermittant glow plug ECU reports. Apparently my Actron unit reset all the O2 codes back when I had the O2 problem so I can't say what the specific O2 codes were at the time of the problem.

Another note. When I cleaned the O2 sensor I never even disconnected it. I carefully wound out the sensor and then unwound the cable counting turns. After I did the cleaning I carefully rewound the cable and re-installed the sensor. It saved messing with the cable support attachments.

I have added O2 sensor teacup cleaning to my DIY list. Hope this helps. vic

Thanks to everyone for all your help on this. Last week I had the glue joint failure on the turbo resonator like so many others have experienced. The Q5 replacement pretty much restored all power. I started getting the P2A00 code so I added injector cleaner on the last tank to see if the sensor voltage climbed any. It went up ~.2volts on average and the lowest voltage that occurs during hard acceleration has gone up about the same .2 volts....this so far has been reducing the number of faults. I got one today in traffic when I was on and off the accelerator a lot. I'll be adding another dose of STP injector cleaner on the next tank of fuel and I'm hooking up the DTC reader to see if the voltage has gone back down.

After reading this thread today, it seems to make sense that the leaking/low boost condition would increase the carbon build-up rate on the sensor..

Jim,
The Teacup steam cleaning worked the first time for about 4 months and around 8000 miles of mixed city/highway driving. I just did the cleaning for a second time the end of April. I now have about 800 miles on this cleaning with no O2 plausibility codes, or any other O2 codes, having returned. The cleaning takes about 15 - 20 minutes and so far I find it to be worth the DIY effort as opposed to a $250.00 sensor. I sometimes wonder what affect the spray in or heavy dose additive cleaning chemicals may have on other components.

So far the van is running fine. My mpg is in the low to mid 20's as it has always been when the O2 codes are happy and the MIL stays off. (knock/touch wood) Most of my daily miles are city driving. I am not a hyper-miler style driver so I figure that's about right. Whether I have other problems that are causing the need for the cleaning remains to be seen. Hope this does some good. AP

I have to remember to use this teacup trick. I have read about sensor cleaning, but went ahead and bought a new one instead. I saved the old and will try the cleaning trick when the problem arises for my S10.

Thanks!

Lot of code checking in this thread.
I've an older actron (2002?) model currently unknown, as its hiding in a shipping box somewhere.
We have a 2005 and a 2008 sprinter in the family, what scanner would you guys suggest????? to pull codes off both of them?

I'm replacing the O2 sensor on my 2004. Here's some part numbers I believe are all plug and play for NAFTA 2001 - 2006 5 cylinder. Most were found compatible under multiple sites. I figure this list may help someone who is broken down and has only local parts stores to check. On-line it's possible to stay under $100.00 with shipping. Local store prices will likely be higher. FWIW. vic

Bosch 17019 Oxygen Sensor

Delphi ES10928 Oxygen Sensor
Edit: I just installed one of these. (C# ES10928 IO#ES10928-11B1) Plugged right in. Seems OK after just 50 miles. About 75 bucks from Amazon w/ shipping. For that price I wouldn't have done my Teacup Cleaning, but that did extend the useful life of the other one. It looks physically very much the same. I guess only time will tell about Delphi quality. The removed one was MB 003 542 71 18.
Further edit: The Delphi choice may not have been the best. Personally I would stay with Bosch for replacement.


NTK #24332

Walker 250-25016 Five Wire Oxygen Sensor

Walker 250-25045 Oxygen Sensor

AC Delco 213-3934 Oxygen Sensor

AC Delco #2134639 (#19239907)

NGK 24315 Oxygen Sensor - NGK/NTK Packaging

Denso #2345091

Airtex/Wells #5S7036

OEM# 003 542 71 18 (or 35427118?)

Here's some O2 sensor information.

more info