Registration , Commercial VS. Regular

[GREYGHOST]

Hey , I am in the process of regisering an out of state (ND) to California registration .CA wants me to weigh the van , Brake and light test it. and then registerit as Commercial. Am i better off registering it as A passenger van? can I choose what I want without the seats in the back yet . Does anybody know the criteria to go non Commercial? I already had a hard time getting a loan for a Commercial vehicle, Am I going to get Stuffed on the Insurance also. If california didnt have such nice weather id be outta here.:thinking: thanks Everybody.

[surlyoldbill]

I went through the same thing. All I had to do was weigh it ($10 at truck scales by Richmond Marina). It costs more to register it as commercial, about $280 a year for mine. I insure it as my personal vehicle and not as a business vehicle. When I asked the DMV worker drone what the difference was between registering it as commercial or passenger, they got a glazed look in their eyes (more than usual) and said that I could get a ticket if I was hauling certain things (building materials?) and it was registered as a passenger van. The only perk I know of for being registered commercial is that you can park in yellow zones, which helps a lot with our band when we play in San Francisco. I do not know all the pros and cons of personal/commercial registration. Of note: all pickups in CA automatically get commercial plates.

My insurance company, Geico, just notified me that they were dropping roadside assistance for my van because it was "commercial". When I called them and asked what my rates and service would be if I registered it as a passenger vehicle, they said there would be no difference, the roadside service was cancelled because it weighs in excess of 5000lbs. My annual bill is about $900 to insure it. I am dropping the roadside service on all our cars (61 Corvair Rampside, 61 Corvair Greenbrier, 63 Corvair Monza convertible, 07 Mazda 3) and just getting AAA for my wife and I; it's cheaper and has better and more service than the roadside option through Geico. AAA covers YOU, not the car, so it doesn't matter what you're driving.

As for California, I hope you brought a lot of money with you. The weather is the ONLY thing it has going for it right now. We're currently in a transition to a 3rd world country type of system, where there are only a few super-rich people and the rest are peasants, no middle class. My wife and I are planning our escape for the next uptick in the housing market, we'll sell our houses and leave in the middle of the night for some other Western State, probably Colorado or tahoe section of Nevada. I'm hoping that we can do this before CA declares martial law and confiscates all private property in it's desperation.

[Aqua Puttana]

GREYGHOST,
In New York State I found with my van the commercial insurance is higher per year than passenger insurance. (It wasn't always that way years past.)

I believe that technically under CFR 49 a commercial plate vehicle is required to carry a MSDS Material Data Safety Sheet for every chemical on board. Yes, WD-40 has an MSDS. The corporation I worked for also had us keep a copy of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations Pocketbook containing 49 CFR, Chapters 40, 380, 382, 383, 387, 390-397, and 399 and a binder for MSDS's in every pickup truck and 3/4 ton van we used over the road. That may be getting nit-picky, but who knows where an accident may take you with insurance or subsequent investigations?

Not that this matters to you in sunny California, but the following may help anyone from NYS that is reading this thread.

******
The following is quoted from here:
http://www.fightnytickets.com/pickup_commercial.html

Vans (Part 106.3 (d)). You can register a van in the passenger class if the van has

* at least on side window behind the driver, and
* at least one seat or set of seat fittings (my emphasis - AP) that is installed behind the driver, or
* Camping equipment is installed behind the driver. "Camping equipment" indicates that you have a permanent bed, a permanent stove, or a permanent refrigerator in the vehicle. If this equipment is removed and you use the van, you must register the van as a commercial vehicle.
******

It's fairly easy to comply in NYS. Unfortunately it has been revealed in previous postings on this subject that the California rules are more detailed.

One disadvantage of commercial registration in NYS is that there are highways which restrict commercial traffic. That said, I see pickups and vans with commercial plates driving on them all the time so it may only restrict the really big rigs.

Do any of the airport style Sprinters have this many seats?

******
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/Private_Buses_71826_7.pdf

Commercial Drivers License (CDL)
Any vehicle that is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the
driver, must have a CDL, including a passenger endorsement (257.312e). It
does not matter how many passengers are actually transported. Removing seats
does not change the original design capacity, which is what the CDL is based
upon.
Any vehicle that is required to have a CDL is also required to be in a federal drug
and alcohol testing program (Title 49, Code of Federal Regulations, Parts 40 and
382). Contact the USDOT FMCSA or the Michigan Trucking Association for
more information about drug and alcohol testing.
Both the CDL law and the drug and alcohol regulations apply to governmental
vehicles, non-profit organizations, youth groups, churches, etc.
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations (FMCSR)
Michigan has adopted the FMCSR into state law at 480.11a, so the FMCSR
apply to both intrastate and interstate transportation.
The FMCSR applies to any commercial motor vehicle (49 CFR 390.5) that:
• Has an actual gross weight or a manufacturer’s gross weight rating in excess
of 10,000 lbs. or transports hazardous materials in an amount that
requires placarding;
• Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the
driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or
• Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers, including the driver,
for compensation.
******


A bit off-topic, but may apply. Anybody know if the restrictions on possession of drinking alcohol that apply to the commercial big rigs can ever bite you with a commercial plate Sprinter sized van?

AP/vic

[businessgypsy]

...If california didnt have such nice weather id be outta here... California has nice weather? Which do you prefer: wildfire season or mudslide season? Kidding, kidding. I'm a former resident of Santa Barbara. This is an interesting thread. I'm waiting the 90 days until my Arizona temp plate expires to decide how to register my new ride. Commercial in Florida, Passenger in Florida or passenger in Oregon (no sales tax, but it would cost more than it would save to drive there). Research continues.

[GREYGHOST]

Thanks for the posts/replies. I actually am born and raised in California, Smack dab between LA and San Diego. BTW my favorite season is the Fire one, When the dry desert winds from Arizona way blow offshore and all the pyromaniacs come out to play. But I went to the Dmv, They asked me if there were seats in the back. I do have a window on my sliding door. and I am worried about the insurance being more expensive from aaa or whoever. And While I drove it back to California from North Dakota I did worry about blowing past the weigh Stations. I also agree with Surly old Bill That California Is going down the toilet. Too much Taxing of my Money just to hand it out to God knows who. Workers comp ,heath care, housing prices. The day laborers that work for me have a better health care deal than me , thats for sure.
Anyway I am glad to know about the window behind the driver . ill see if i can Rustle up a seat or Bench seat. Or some floor bosses . i would like to be able to carry passengers if the need arose. Hey i might need to run an airport shuttle service for all the people like Surlyoldbill that are fleeing Der Kalifornia.
any body local willing to rent their Bench?

[Aqua Puttana]

Anyway I am glad to know about the window behind the driver . ill see if i can Rustle up a seat or Bench seat. Or some floor bosses.
Hold on there partner. Before ya' get ta' rustlin' them seats, I said that the info was for New York State (the other "Land of Taxes"). It may not work for you on the left coast. You should do some research because I'm pretty certain the rules in California may be more specific. AP/vic

[surlyoldbill]

In CA, more than 10 passenger/driver seats requires CDL. I think that's why Sprinters are maxed at 10 with both the 140 and 158. I did ask a policeman about driving in the commuter lane with just two people if I had my rear seats removed, and he said it was OK (2 seats, 2 people is OK for 3-passenger required commuter lanes; most commuter lanes only require 2 people, but there are a few corridors in the Bay Area that require 3 during commute hours).

BTW: in case you didn't know, the culture of supporting day laborers is one of the main contributors to CA going down the drain. It's like a drug addiction, it feels good (to "save money") at the time, but repeated and excessive use destroys body and soul. Break the cycle of addiction, hire a citizen. This isn't the place to get into it, but it is not a racial issue, it's an economic/political issue.

[surlyoldbill]

On seats, I don't think they have to be OEM. You can buy an aftermarket conversion van bench seat that folds down to a bed or something, they are designed for easy installation. Maybe the wrecking yard would have a good used one.

[GREYGHOST]

Hold on there partner. Before ya' get ta' rustlin' them seats, I said that the info was for New York State (the other "Land of Taxes"). It may not work for you on the left coast. You should do some research because I'm pretty certain the rules in California may be more specific. AP/vic

AP, I was asked at the CA DMV if there were seats in the back.I answered no, at the time, but it got me thinking about what if I add seats and then get a ticket for illegally caying passengers (live Cargo) with a commercial vehicle? you never know.
Also I know a guy who got a huge ticket for not stopping at a weigh station on the freeway with a chevy cube van. he didnt think that he had to stop.:idunno:

[GREYGHOST]

In CA, more than 10 passenger/driver seats requires CDL. I think that's why Sprinters are maxed at 10 with both the 140 and 158. I did ask a policeman about driving in the commuter lane with just two people if I had my rear seats removed, and he said it was OK (2 seats, 2 people is OK for 3-passenger required commuter lanes; most commuter lanes only require 2 people, but there are a few corridors in the Bay Area that require 3 during commute hours).

BTW: in case you didn't know, the culture of supporting day laborers is one of the main contributors to CA going down the drain. It's like a drug addiction, it feels good (to "save money") at the time, but repeated and excessive use destroys body and soul. Break the cycle of addiction, hire a citizen. This isn't the place to get into it, but it is not a racial issue, it's an economic/political issue.

I definetly have major Issues with the underground economy of day laborers. I hate to say it ,but if I could find a native Californian that was interested in learning something ,that had maybe grown up doing chores around the house,Could drive a nail , Mowed his parents lawn while growing up so that he knew how to start an engine, fixed his own bicycle instead of having mommy and daddy just buy him a new one ,or would even be willing to work for anywhere CLOSE to minimum wage, for the opportunity to learn something (while damaging somebody's house I am working on, "no josh, you cant rinse the concrete off your hands in these peoples kitchen sink"), I would be more than willing to hire a citizen or a legal immigrant. BTW my wife is a Legal immigrant so dont need any info on that issue. So my problem is the same as every body else in America really, How do I be competitive in the marketplace and hire people that have done nothing besides having gone to school and maybe learned how to Party, that dont understand that they might actually have to do something undesirable like tear open a wall that could have been a rats bathroom or carry 2 tons of wet lumber up a steep driveway that the lumber truck cant drive up. You're right this is not the place for a rant on business /Socioeconomic Ethics . But i still have to provide food and shelter for my Family first before i consider anything else. I do appreciate the mention of this problem, It is a problem. If all my fellow americans would agree to hire only documented workers to clean their homes and paint their houses then I reciprocally promise to only hire the same. Respectfully, John.

[Aqua Puttana]

AP, I was asked at the CA DMV if there were seats in the back.I answered no, at the time, but it got me thinking about what if I add seats and then get a ticket for illegally carrying passengers (live Cargo) with a commercial vehicle? you never know.

There was a spot on our DMV form for number of seats. Being the good citizen I am :whistle: I lied and said there were some because I knew I planned to install at least one seat (which I have done). I did note on the form that the back seats were not OEM. They didn't seem to care about that.

Again, this doesn't apply to California, the NY registration sticker on my 2004 Sprinter 2500 with non-OEM seats has "Pass 7" on it. My 2001 Dodge RamVan 2500 with OEM seats for 8 has "Pass 6" on it. I thought those designations specified the number of passengers. I just looked at my son's 1998 minivan it has "Pass 1". My 1995 Buick has "Pass X" on the sticker. I guess those are not number of occupant designations as I once thought.:doh:

Also I know a guy who got a huge ticket for not stopping at a weigh station on the freeway with a Chevy cube van. he didn't think that he had to stop.:idunno:
I believe Sailquik on the Yahoo Sprintervan forum told the story of getting inspected and held because there was some alcoholic beverages stuck in a cooler buried deep in the back of his personal cube van. I'm quite certain one of the things he likes about the Sprinter is it falls below the line for many regulations like needing to stop for inspections.

I wonder how many traps there might be out there for registering (and then properly/legally using) our Sprinters? Then again, it's probably best to not know everything or we'd just be more stressed. AP/vic

[surlyoldbill]

Charity starts at home. Be an example for others. I am. Also be aware that it is highly illegal for a business to knowingly hire illegal laborers, and the crackdowns have already started in AZ, rumor is that they will start in CA soon, and the fines will be heavy as well as loss of business license, according to the CLB. The grey market area of hiring mow/blow/go and housekeepers for cash is still a moral and ethical choice.

[kendall69]

In Ca, I am being charged commercial plated which are more money and mine has three rows of seats. I went in for a refund with all the seats in and they said "sure we can change it from a commercial van, but with all those seats you are now considered a BUS.

WHAT!!!!!!! - I'm going back with one seat out for my next inspection and refund.

[surlyoldbill]

I'm pretty sure that if it holds 10 seatbelted people or less it is a passenger van and not a bus in CA.

[deanlnor]

Bill, I could not agree with more on you views of Cal. This place gets crazier by the day. I am looking for a way out as well. Better hurry though cuz everybody is leaving ahead of us. Recently released pop. data for the state shows a 1% growth. Lowest in recorded history. Means hundreds of thousands leaving each year.

Just got my new DMV bill for the 05 Sprinter. Wt fee is up from $80 to $150. Been looking for a rear seat for awhile. Now, I am on a mission to find one. Anybody in the Bay Area got one they want to sell.

BTW Bill, seems we are neighbors. I live at the top of Cutting, In El Cerrito.

Dean

[sikwan]

SV or Sportsvan is what you want your van designated as to receive the 1ABC234 non-commercial plate. You need a seat in the back though. A single 2 seat bench should suffice.

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1432

You avoid paying the weight fee, $80 in my case for the 140, and lose the right to park in commercial spots (like I need that privilege).

Btw, I had all of my bench seats in the van so the total available seats inside was 10. They inspected it outside in the parking lot (drive-thru), decided it was an SV (SportsVan), I went back inside to get my new non-commercial plates and tags.

Don't worry. The DMV is so inconsistent (incompetent?) depending on who you talk to I think I lucked out the day I got my non-commercial plate.

[sailquik]

AP has an incredible memory!
If anyone wants a plethora of reasons about why I sold a perfecly good $12K
Mitsubishi Fuso 4x4 box truck for $6k due to "over enforcement" (I'm being nice here) from the USDOT/FMCSA/State DOT's at weigh stations all over the USA, I have the sad tales.
Suffice to say that if you register as commercial or for some reason get a USDOT #/
Weighted License Tag in North Carolina or Virgina, and most likely a CAL-T # in Calif.
YOU ARE a commercial vehicle and along with that you ARE a trucking company and you MUST comply with all provisions of the US Code/FMCSA/State comm'l vehicle Regs.
Don't even THINK about going to any kind of store that sells alcoholic beverages and making a purchase. The instant you place any alcoholic beverages in a commercial vehicle you are subject to these penalties:
Your vehicle will be placed out of service... on the spot... for 24 hours minimum.
Someone else can come and drive your vehicle away with you in it, but you cannot move it for 24 hours yourself.
You will receive a $1000 fine.... first offence, not excuses, the fact that you are not a commercial trucking company and do not fully understand a couple hundred pages of
US Code won't help. You are commercial therefore ignorance is no defense.
And, after you spend $2500 for a lawyer to fight the ticket and are aquitted
(the ticket was nole prossed in Federal District Court on the Eastern Shore in MD)
there is no way to make the State or USDOT remove the fact that you were cited
for alcohol in a commercial vehicle go away. It will forever remain fore most on
your USDOT Snapshot, and the State suggests that they do not expunge "MINOR"
traffic violations from their records. USDOT Gen Counsel suggests that removing
the offence from USDOT records would cause problems with their database.
So.... I sold the truck!
Here's what finally convinced me.
I drove from Cape Hatteras up to VA and over to the VA Eastern Shore.
When I crossed into MD I stopped at the Weigh Station (the truck was 6k and required
a USDOT # even though used completely for private use and as my daily drive), it was
May (Truck Safety Month) so I was given a full mechanical inspection, log book, medical
card, annual inspection cetificate, etc. For some reason the inspector wanted to look in my trailer and in the back of my box truck. Nothing in the trailer but my windsurfing gear. Nothing locked in the truck box but more windsurfing gear, a bed, my personal luggage etc. ..... OH, wait.... is that an ice chest in there? Yes! What's in it? Snacks, sodas, a couple of beers maybe. Padlocked in the back of the truck!
OK! Park your truck right over there, lock it, go find some place to stay for the nite
(after 45 minutes filling out the ticket, a Sobriety Test from another State Trooper (the breathalizer said 0.00% so no DUI).
So, if you can register as a van or personal vehicle... do so. If you can register as an RV... even better...put in whatever things it takes to qualify in your state as an RV.
..do not unless you are actually in commercial service...register as a commercial vehicle.
If you do register as commercial, buy the complete Qualcomm system and get the weigh
in motion transponder. You won't have to visit as many scales. My '06 3500 SHC Sprinter has an NC RV license, and the GVW is 9,990 lbs.
That's only 11 pounds < the magic 10,001 lbs. that makes your life on the road a living
hell. I still "cringe" as I drive by weigh stations... half expecting the chase car coming after
me to make me go back and weigh. I know exactly what my vehicle weight is, and I weigh a couple tmes a year at Flying J scales just to be on the safe side.
Oh, and soon they may make the weight of any trailer on the back of your Sprinter part
of the overall GVW..... then we all will have to stop at weigh stations. NC and VA have
the weight included... not enforcing it yet except on Com. Motor Veh.'s
Be an RV.... the RV lobby is very strong.... RV's don't have to weigh anywhere that I
know of.
Thanks for listening!
Roger

[Altered Sprinter]

Whoops there goes the 7T trailer Option 15 thousand LBs
Well it's the same down under at home
4.9 metric Tonne on a passenger ,sedan license.
After that you take out a Heavy medium license,Then you can carry the extra weight on the trailer
Richard

[nebep]

If you're GVWR is less than 10,001, you're not a commercial vehicle in the eyes of the FED. You don't have to stop at scales if you're under this weight. States may vary wildly though. In VA, 26,001 is the magic number.

As well, in Virginia, we have two "classes" of state trooper - a regular bloke, then, the motor carrier certified officer. (I only mention this because many other states may have a similar scam, oh, sorry, I mean, scheme....)

I had a speeding ticket thrown out of court here because a non-motor carrier officer wrote me a ticket for speeding in a commercial motor vehicle. Along with this, I had no CDL, so, two points were clear, one from the weight panel on the truck that showed the GVWR of 14,300, and the other tough part I brought up to the judge was that it was going to be pretty difficult to put on my record I was speeding in a CMV when I don't have a CDL. He started to cringe, then I mentioned that I'd like to see the troopers motor carrier enforcement certification, and that was it - case dismissed. That trooper was NOT happy in the least.

STAY AWAY FROM COMMERCIAL REGISTRATION!

Also, look carefully for permanent registrations. Some states have them. You register once, you display permanent tags, and you're done.

[surlyoldbill]

AP has an incredible memory!
If anyone wants a plethora of reasons about why I sold a perfecly good $12K
Mitsubishi Fuso 4x4 box truck for $6k due to "over enforcement" (I'm being nice here) from the USDOT/FMCSA/State DOT's at weigh stations all over the USA, I have the sad tales.
Suffice to say that if you register as commercial or for some reason get a USDOT #/
Weighted License Tag in North Carolina or Virgina, and most likely a CAL-T # in Calif.
YOU ARE a commercial vehicle and along with that you ARE a trucking company and you MUST comply with all provisions of the US Code/FMCSA/State comm'l vehicle Regs.
Don't even THINK about going to any kind of store that sells alcoholic beverages and making a purchase. The instant you place any alcoholic beverages in a commercial vehicle you are subject to these penalties:
Your vehicle will be placed out of service... on the spot... for 24 hours minimum.
Someone else can come and drive your vehicle away with you in it, but you cannot move it for 24 hours yourself.
You will receive a $1000 fine.... first offence, not excuses, the fact that you are not a commercial trucking company and do not fully understand a couple hundred pages of
US Code won't help. You are commercial therefore ignorance is no defense.
And, after you spend $2500 for a lawyer to fight the ticket and are aquitted
(the ticket was nole prossed in Federal District Court on the Eastern Shore in MD)
there is no way to make the State or USDOT remove the fact that you were cited
for alcohol in a commercial vehicle go away. It will forever remain fore most on
your USDOT Snapshot, and the State suggests that they do not expunge "MINOR"
traffic violations from their records. USDOT Gen Counsel suggests that removing
the offence from USDOT records would cause problems with their database.
So.... I sold the truck!
Here's what finally convinced me.
I drove from Cape Hatteras up to VA and over to the VA Eastern Shore.
When I crossed into MD I stopped at the Weigh Station (the truck was 6k and required
a USDOT # even though used completely for private use and as my daily drive), it was
May (Truck Safety Month) so I was given a full mechanical inspection, log book, medical
card, annual inspection cetificate, etc. For some reason the inspector wanted to look in my trailer and in the back of my box truck. Nothing in the trailer but my windsurfing gear. Nothing locked in the truck box but more windsurfing gear, a bed, my personal luggage etc. ..... OH, wait.... is that an ice chest in there? Yes! What's in it? Snacks, sodas, a couple of beers maybe. Padlocked in the back of the truck!
OK! Park your truck right over there, lock it, go find some place to stay for the nite
(after 45 minutes filling out the ticket, a Sobriety Test from another State Trooper (the breathalizer said 0.00% so no DUI).
So, if you can register as a van or personal vehicle... do so. If you can register as an RV... even better...put in whatever things it takes to qualify in your state as an RV.
..do not unless you are actually in commercial service...register as a commercial vehicle.
If you do register as commercial, buy the complete Qualcomm system and get the weigh
in motion transponder. You won't have to visit as many scales. My '06 3500 SHC Sprinter has an NC RV license, and the GVW is 9,990 lbs.
That's only 11 pounds < the magic 10,001 lbs. that makes your life on the road a living
hell. I still "cringe" as I drive by weigh stations... half expecting the chase car coming after
me to make me go back and weigh. I know exactly what my vehicle weight is, and I weigh a couple tmes a year at Flying J scales just to be on the safe side.
Oh, and soon they may make the weight of any trailer on the back of your Sprinter part
of the overall GVW..... then we all will have to stop at weigh stations. NC and VA have
the weight included... not enforcing it yet except on Com. Motor Veh.'s
Be an RV.... the RV lobby is very strong.... RV's don't have to weigh anywhere that I
know of.
Thanks for listening!
Roger

Most of this must not apply in CA, because pickups automatically are given commercial plates; thus, you could not go to the store and buy a sixpack of beer with your groceries if you're driving a pickup according to those regulations. The differences and regulations must be a nightmare for the police.

[sailquik]

Hi Surly Old Bill and Nepeb,
Nepeb brings up a really good point.
The way the States enforce their regulations (and in many cases the FED (USDOT/
FMCSA/NTSB, etc) can vary wildly.
In MD, the Truck Enforcement Officers are actually also USDOT/FMCSA officers.
They wear 2 hats!
For Surly Old Bill.... My experience in Calif. (I used to do several windsurfing tour
stops and visit with my family when in Calif.) was equally strange.
I rec'd a citation for not having a CAL T # while traveling from Lake Isabella to Long Beach.
I was at the top of the Grapevine and a CHP Truck Enforcement Officer pulled me over.
I was in a legally licensed (in NC) vehicle, weighing 10K (vehicle rated for 12K) and simply traveling through Calif. to visit my family. Made no difference. $540 ticket for not having a CAL T #.
I tried to do the "trail by email" deal and point out that Calif./NC have/had a reciprocal agreement. If legal in your home state, and not delivering commercial cargo to Calif. the
vehicle is legal in Calif. and does not require a Cal T #.
That didn't work and I paid the ticket. The bureacracy cashed the check (it was a contractor to L.A. County at the LA County court in Santa Clarita) but did not clear
the ticket. Fortunately when I had to do my USDOT "Safety Audit" one of the NC DMV
officers let me know that I had an outstanding warrant in Santa Clarita.
My next trip to Calif. I stopped in Santa Clarita and showed them the cancelled check.
That cleared up the warrant.
Now back to how the State of North Carolina was "forced" to adopt (almost identical word for word) all of the FED regulations pertaining to CMV's (Commercial Motor Vehicles).
The NC legislature was reviewing the state's CMV regs and when they were about to be approved, the FED showed up at the final session and simply told the legislature that if they wanted to continue to receive millions of $$ in Federal Highway Funds, they would change their CMV regs to be indentical to the FED version.
I expect something similar may have happended in Calif.
The most recent change here in NC (and VA/MD as well I think) is the addition of any
trailers (except RV camping trailers, but not specifically excluded) and the weight of any cargo in the trailer must be accounted for in the registered weight of the vehicle.
My 12,000lb. GVW box truck was cited for overweight because the weight of my cargo trailer was not on my truck registration. Imagine registering a 12 k GVW truck at 17k to cover the 4500 lb trailer? Hmmmm.... I was informed that my truck was considered a "power unit" (just like an 18 wheeler tractor) when I added the trailer and the registration (read this as additional annual registration fees) has to cover the combined weight. My annual registration fees doubled.
So, as NC moved in the FED direction, all pickups and vans over 5k GVW received "weighted" license plates. This made them commercial and allows the State Troopers and Truck enforcement officers to make them subject to the state's CMV regulations. There are millions of NC pickup truck drivers who could be cited under the
same provisions of CFR 49 Part 392.5 or the local NC version of these regs.if the officer wants to get tough for some reason.
Here's the link:
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?chunkKey=09016334800238d2

Best to check the California CMV regulations very carefully to make sure that the same sort of FED mandate was not applied in Calif.
I just had a look at the Calif. CMV/CDL regs.
I strongly suggest you check them out. Pickups have some exclusions, but vans (like your
Sprinter) may not. The regs. are very specific about what trailers you can tow with a CMV with a declared weight of < 10,001 lbs.
I would have to guess that the FED was able to mandate Calif. compliance using Federal Highway Funds as leverage.
Specifically, check out Calif. CMV regulation 34520.
It gives the CHP the right to enforce any and all provisions of FED CFR 49 Part 392.5 on any commercial vehicle in Calif.
As Nepeb suggests....... avoid a commercial plate if at all possible! If you get the commercial plate, and travel to other states, there is no way of telling how the CMV enforcement officers will treat you.
Roger

[Aqua Puttana]

Most of this must not apply in CA, because pickups automatically are given commercial plates; thus, you could not go to the store and buy a six pack of beer with your groceries if you're driving a pickup according to those regulations. The differences and regulations must be a nightmare for the police.
Surlyoldbill,
I really don't know the laws so take this for what it is worth. I'm not trying to cause hysterics.

Just because the laws aren't enforced doesn't mean that they don't apply. What if your commercial registered vehicle starts leaking fluid (that gallon jug of carpet cleaner or lamp oil you picked up at Home Depot?) in a parking lot, gets noticed/reported, and you don't have the MSDS for that liquid? The officer/responder action could be very different for you with commercial plates as opposed to having a passenger or RV registration. A bystander using environmental concerns as a platform can easily escalate the response. Logic doesn't always apply. It can go way wrong.

In New York State there is an open container law for alcohol in vehicles. (In my opinion those laws are outdated now that there are breathalyzer and blood tests, but that's another soapbox.) The laws have been modified so one can carry empty open containers in a passenger van to recycle, but there are specific areas of the van that are excluded. If you get pulled over with your open containers in the front area of the van and some officer chooses to enforce the law, you now have your first alcohol while driving related ticket. It's not commonly enforced to that degree, but the law is still there as written.

Given our special interest group pressures, political correctness, insurance company attitudes, etc. I wouldn't minimize what can happen. I'm not saying anyone should panic, but there's people on this forum posting personal experience that is good information to share. FWIW. AP/vic

[WeBeGone]

If I didn't have a passenger seat in the back I would have had to license my van with commercial plates.

[GREYGHOST]

I finally got a captains chair ,after market van seat installed in the rear,the easiest place was right at the opening of the slider. just pulled the seat out of the E150 van. So, I go to the Department of Masochistic Ventures, They inspect the VIN and then I politely remind them that I would prefer to have an SV or sportsvan/ sportvan classification and non-commercial plates, they start twitching. So, the bossman asks me if I have windows and seats, and I go back outside to show him. Then he says I dont have enough windows or seats. I have two back (one in each cargo door) and one in the slider. So He says, accusingly, "You put that seat in there", to which I replied ,"yeah". So we discuss how many windows and how many seats that one should have in their van ,to qualify as having windows and seats in their van. so that goes nowhere. get back inside and we have a discussion about I will get pulled over if I drive my Van with passenger plates, I mentioned that I thought that was my problem and I would sign a waiver, but they were'nt going for it. I left with a temporary registration ,and a referral to CHP . They are going to let the enforcement officer make the call. I probably should go to the appointment with my 4 yr old daughter buckled into the new seat. Any advice? John:thinking:

[sikwan]

I would've told you to go to another DMV, but that's too late now. I wouldn't go with your daughter there as they can pull something stupid like impound your vehicle.

I would just go and find out from the CHP officer says (and what you need to do to get an approval). They might be feeling good and just give you a pass or worse case they will just recommend that you have windows on the opposite side of the sliding door.

Some information that can help on the Body Type near the bottom...

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/reg_hdbk_pdf/ch02.pdf

[kendall69]

I'm pretty sure that if it holds 10 seatbelted people or less it is a passenger van and not a bus in CA.

Tell that to the DMV guy with a clip board and his supervisor. As long as you work for the DMV they have the power and love to flaunt it.

Like I said I stood there and went away as I didn't want be considered a BUS.


2.040Buses (VC §233)
A bus is any vehicle, including a trailer bus, designed, used, or maintained for carrying more than 15 persons including the driver and/or a vehicle designed, used, or maintained for carrying more than 10 persons, including the driver, used to transport persons for compensation or profit or by any nonprofit organization or group. A van pool vehicle is not a bus.

[Aqua Puttana]

...
Then he says I dont have enough windows or seats. ...


It seems the vehicle bureaucrats in California, Oregon, others(?) make our New York State counterparts look like angels in comparison.

All I can offer is sympathy. However, most times I do that a friend of mine always reminded me that the definition of sympathy is found somewhere between sh*t and syphilis in the dictionary.:thinking: AP/vic

[GREYGHOST]

Sikwan, I dont think I actually would have buckled my daughter into the new seat, and driven down there, but I sure would like to have. she's quite the little actress ,and probably get her to cry on queue of ,"We're sorry but we cant give you this designation". Would be a good story. What happened was . I called the CHP and he kind of just chuckled and asked me which DMV I went to. It's funny that everybody I talked to about this ,asked me which Dmv I went to. San Clemente, CA. So I get a number from him and call it , Its the Vehicle department of the San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station ! Whaa? So He asks me which DMV I went to , and then gives me the # to Oceanside DMV. Call, talk to a nice gal, she says San Clemente DMV shouldnt have had a problem with the Van, and tells me to come on down. so me and the 11 yr old throw some backpacks, surfboards and sleeping bags in the back and head on down. When she comes out and sees the interior she pulls a San Clem on me and says its got too much space and i need to put another seat in the rear, so that i cant put stuff in there, like the Longboard . Whaa? This ones funny... she has some papers she printed out and says if I had a sink in there, or it had something that made it Habitable for people she could change the Reg. I then ask, So if I install Factory bench seat, with brackets so that I can remove it easily , you will sign off .... Yep. Ill let you know how it turns out. There is a place in Fountain Valley, CA (orange County) called FAMVANS, that sells all kinds of vans and has seats out the *ss, pun intended. If anybody needs a bench or captains, try them. Im going to stop by there next, they have a shot of their seat collection on OC Craigslist. John.

[sailquik]

Hi GREYGHOST,
I used to live in Calif. and I see that the DMV has not changed much since the 1970's.
A friend located a VW Kombi flatbed in a junkyard for me. It had a blown up engine
but I had a spare 40 hp motor I had rebuilt so I bought the Kombi for cheap and took
the motor over and installed it at the junkyard.
Then the "having fun at the DMV" phase started.
Since the VW was classified as "revived junk", the first DMV office said I needed
a certified weight for the vehicle (it had once had a comm'l plate I think).
So, I got a temp. paper plate and found a scale and got it weighed.
I then went to a different DMV office with all the paper work to get my plates.
I laid the weight slip on the counter and the DMV gal started laughing.
"Who told you to get it weighed, she asked?", still laughing.
She pulled a book out from under the counter and looked up 1960 VW Kombi
flatbed and told me what the Kombi weighed when it came off the ship from
Germany. It was about 75# less than the weight slip.
I got the plates.
If you can get a temp. plate (so you can get all the paperwork straightened out,
try a couple of different DMV offices. If they won't give you the plate you want,
thank them, and try another DMV. Look around for small satellite DMV offices.
You may be past that now, but maybe you need to find an old camper somewhere
VW/Ford Van/ etc and buy the sink/stove unit.
Put it in your Sprinter and go get an RV license.
When I registered my '06 3500, the big crucial (comm'l vs RV) question was "is
there a toilet in the vehicle?.... I now have a porta-potti under the cot I have in the
back and that made the Sprinter an RV (It has sleeping quarters and a toilet).
It's a game...yes, and you might have to get creative to get the result you would like.
Roger

[GREYGHOST]

Game on DMV, Its more the principal of the arguement at this point. I feel like I need to make a point now. It is pretty ridiculous about the sink or toilet or sleeping provision. But you're right about just moving on to another DMV. At some point you'll end up coming across someone that will think it through, and realize that they drive too. and when they pay weight fees for a ford ranger they own and use it like a car they are getting unfairly taxed also. God Bless the Department of Motor Vehicles.

[Mr DJ]

Here's what finally convinced me.
I drove from Cape Hatteras up to VA and over to the VA Eastern Shore.
When I crossed into MD I stopped at the Weigh Station (the truck was 6k and required
a USDOT # even though used completely for private use and as my daily drive), it was
May (Truck Safety Month) so I was given a full mechanical inspection, log book, medical
card, annual inspection cetificate, etc. For some reason the inspector wanted to look in my trailer and in the back of my box truck. Nothing in the trailer but my windsurfing gear. Nothing locked in the truck box but more windsurfing gear, a bed, my personal luggage etc. ..... OH, wait.... is that an ice chest in there? Yes! What's in it? Snacks, sodas, a couple of beers maybe. Padlocked in the back of the truck!
OK! Park your truck right over there, lock it, go find some place to stay for the nite
(after 45 minutes filling out the ticket, a Sobriety Test from another State Trooper (the breathalizer said 0.00% so no DUI).
So, if you can register as a van or personal vehicle... do so. If you can register as an RV... even better...put in whatever things it takes to qualify in your state as an RV.


The NC legislature was reviewing the state's CMV regs and when they were about to be approved, the FED showed up at the final session and simply told the legislature that if they wanted to continue to receive millions of $$ in Federal Highway Funds, they would change their CMV regs to be indentical to the FED version.
I expect something similar may have happended in Calif.
The most recent change here in NC (and VA/MD as well I think) is the addition of any
trailers (except RV camping trailers, but not specifically excluded) and the weight of any cargo in the trailer must be accounted for in the registered weight of the vehicle.

Roger

Roger

Do you know if registering the 2010 Cargo Van which has seats for 6 in MD would receive a passenger registration?

Thanks.

Mr DJ

[sailquik]

Hi Mr. DJ,
I do not know for sure.
My guess would be that they would classify it as a passenger van, but vans in general seem
to fall into a different category than cars in Maryland.
That is a question I would drive to a MD MVA (Motor Vehicle Administration) Office and ask about.
Try to get the response in writing if you can.
Also, since you are buying the Sprinter new, check with your dealer and see what they think
they can get it registered as.
Hope this helps,
Roger

[Mr DJ]

Roger thanks...

I intended on calling the MD MVA on Monday; wanted to see what you may have already known. I may not be buying one anyways unless they offer the 4x4 as a Special Order as I suggested to Mark. He's sending my entire message to MB to see what happens.

Have you seen the 2010 complete info on MBUSA.COM? Man, it is one sweet puppy. If they don't offer the 4x4 this year and if another manufacture delivers one, I will probably jump ship and get one. I just gotta; I say again, just gotta have a 4x4. Something that large is still light in the butt and with rear wheel drive; it's just a slippery slide in snow and even rain. My RAM 1500 is a 4x4. I always drive in 2WD to see how far I can go in the snow and rain—nowhere in the snow and take off from a stop in the rain its butt just wiggles and waggles. But once I switch into all 4s, man, I just giddy up and move right along :bounce:


Mr DJ

[sailquik]

Hi Mr. DJ
Where in MD do you live that has so much snow?
I find the Sprinter, even with the Continental Vanco Duals on the rear (these tires are pretty awful in snow/ice traction, but do a pretty
good job in the wet) does quite well in the wet, and the ASR traction control works great once you reach around 15 mph.
I too would love to have a 4x4 Sprinter, but I've got 70K miles in 2 years and I've only been stuck in the snow twice in MD and stuck in
the sand twice in Hatteras.
I think the traction could easily be improved on my '06 3500 if I bought some good snow/ice traction tires for the back and only ran them
in the winter.
I'm thinking about changing my wheels to 16" so I will have more tire options.
I believe the 2010 will have 16" wheels so you won't have the tire selection issues I've been through.
Roger

[Mr DJ]

Hey Roger,

I'm in a city called Waldorf, but even if we didn't get any snow, I still have to have a 4x4. I'm hooked since 1980 something when I was stationed in Germany (Air Force); bought a 4x4 Subaru and drove into a muddy area in rear wheel drive on purpose to see if I would get stuck--I did. Shifted that puppy into 4x4 and she pulled out so easily and with authority; from then on I've always had at least on vehicle with AWD or 4x4. I've two now: Chry 300C AWD and a RAM 1500 4x4. I also have two Toyota Yaris with front wheel drive.

So you've been doing pretty well in the snow huh? Must have been only a milimeter thick :laughing: Yeah, the 16" wheels will do better; gonna see if I can find some 20s for mine :smilewink:

So in a mere 2 years you've put 70K on that puppy--MAN! You're a driving fool--I doubt if I get 5 a year on mine--seriously. I only plan to drive her on weekends to carry around my radio controlled jets to my flying field which is merely 15 miles oneway. But I will start attending Jet Rallies upto 2 maybe 300 miles oneway away but that won't be often. But even if I only drive her to the corner store and back, I still gotta have AWD. Better to have and don't need than to need and don't have.

Mr DJ

[Aqua Puttana]

Hey John,
Just ran across this thread trying to provide Jersygirl some info over at Sprintervan.

What was the outcome for you? Are you still able to load your boards or did they give you a "too much space" restriction?:tongue: Maybe you posted and I missed it.:thinking: Just curious. vic
Game on DMV, Its more the principal of the arguement at this point. I feel like I need to make a point now. It is pretty ridiculous about the sink or toilet or sleeping provision. But you're right about just moving on to another DMV. At some point you'll end up coming across someone that will think it through, and realize that they drive too. and when they pay weight fees for a ford ranger they own and use it like a car they are getting unfairly taxed also. God Bless the Department of Motor Vehicles.

[Kat]

So before I go changing the license on my Sprinter to a motor home (which costs more than twice the fee I pay now, and I will also change how it is insured) I just want to make sure I understand this.

I have a 2010 High Roof Sprinter with the 144" WB and the GVWR is 8,550 lbs and as of yet it doesn't have a trailer hitch so towing isn't a concern. (I took it to a CAT scale last night with a full tank of gas, water jugs filled, camping gear, clothing, non-perishable food, a load of groceries and me in it, it weighed 6,760 lbs.).

WA State has it licensed under "Truck or commercial vehicle" and the license fee is based on their "Miscellaneous Gross Weight Fee Chart". They must assume its GVW is 6,000 lbs because the yearly fee is $51.00. Is a truck or commercial vehicle the same thing and if so, I should assume I have a "commercial license" plate? http://www.dol.wa.gov/vehicleregistration/fees.html

My van has been converted to an RV and it clearly looks like an RV on the inside.

I don't own a business and I don't use my van for any commercial purpose and never intend to.

The Fed says I don't need a DOT number and WA State says I don't need one either.

But it sounds like there are some states that I might travel through that might consider it a commercial vehicle and that I may get ticketed for not meeting their requirements (what ever they are) for a commercial vehicle. Is that right? And if that's the case, it doesn't matter what I tell the gov't bureaucrats, I'll have to pay the fine because ignorance is no excuse and their state needs the money...

Also, it sounds like if my van is considered a "commercial vehicle" that I can't carry a bottle of wine in it, drive up to a liquor store in it, and I have to be careful not to spill anything while in a Home Depot parking lot... Am I understanding this correctly?

And do I have to worry about bypassing weigh stations in other states?

:idunno: I find this all rather confusing and if true, it seems ridiculous.
Thanks!

Kat

[sailquik]

Kat,
If you register and insure it as an RV, you will have no issues, anywhere.
You do not need a USDOT # since you are not in commerce, and your Sprinter
weighs well below the 10,001 lbs. where USDOT #'s are required.
It's OK to go to the grocery or liquor store and purchase the beverage of your
choice because you are in an RV.
If you leave your registration and insurance as a commercial motor vehicle (CMV) then
you are not allowed to have any alcoholic beverages on board at any time unless you
are an alcoholic beverage transporter and you have the beverages listed on your manifest.
With an RV license, and at your weight, you will never be required to stop at the commercial vehicle weigh stations/scales, in any state.
The RV lobby is very strong, and they have ensured that RV's do not have to stop at weigh stations, even though many of the Class A Motorhomes weigh 30k lbs. or more.
Do not worry about trailers.
They do not count trailer weight in most states, and in the few states where they do, if you stay under the Combined Vehicle Weight Rating listed on the weight placard on the side of your seat box, you will be fine.
Even if it costs a bit more, as long as they do not make you install things you do not need to meet the Washington State RV criteria, you are far better off with an RV license.
You might want to check the WA State vehicle licensing regulations to see what things your Sprinter has to have to meet the Recreational Vehicle criteria.
Hope this helps,
Roger

[hulagun]

Pickup trucks and cargo vans are routinely registered in CA as commercial, it's just how they do things here. AFAIK it is not illegal to possess unopened alcoholic beverages in a commercially-plated vehicle in CA. Such a law would make it impossible to operate a lot of businesses (like brewing, catering, etc).

It's possible that some states have more arcane laws, but jeez, what're the odds you'll get pulled over in one and then ticketed?

Just stay outa Hazzard County, Rambo. :laughing:

[Kat]

I called the county auditor's office and asked what kind of license plate I have. I was told that the dealer listed the use as a "truck" (with van body) and that THEY do not consider it a commercial vehicle and that if they did, the registration would say the use is "commercial" and would most likely be registered under a business name.

I'm wondering if this would this be obvious (truck license versus commercial license) to some state trooper who pulled me over me because I didn't stop at a weigh scale or who was suspicious and just decided to pull me over?

The lady at the auditor's office said I could also re-register the van as a personal vehicle instead of an RV and fees would be based on weight. The cost would be a bit more than what it costs now with a "truck" license, but less than an RV license. She also said that I should register it as an RV if it has amenities like a bed, toilet, sink, etc. because if I got pulled over, a state trooper could inspect it and tell me to get it licensed as an RV. I'm not too worried about that.

I'm wondering if there is some advantage in licensing it as an RV over a personal vehicle, or if since it is (by my state) considered a truck/van and not a commercial vehicle to just leave it as is.

The cost per year for a truck is $51.00, for a passenger vehicle $64.00, or for an RV $112.00 (but it would cost an extra $40.00 to change it to passenger or RV this year).

If I insure it as an RV, my insurance agent said I need to come up with a value for it and I could use receipts for my van conversion to justify that part. But after searching the internet, it looks like there is no FREE source like NADA or KBB to get a value on a used Sprinter van. Apparently there is a commercial NADA book that costs $120.00 :shifty: In addition, my insurance company says that if I insure it as an RV, that is a yearly policy and that I can't suspend the insurance when I'm not driving it.

I need to figure this out soon since both my insurance policy and tabs need to be renewed by next week.

Thanks!

Kat

[d_bertko]

Every state has different registration requirements.

You can get into trouble many places if you register at a weight less than the GVWR. Just check that point with your state.

That likely is mostly applied to commercial vehicles. Here in MA you used to be able to register according to what ever you wanted as long as your weight stayed below it. That made sense for a furniture hauler like me but that got subsumed by new rules to use the gvwr.

RV insurance in many states is cheaper than passenger rates. But only about $10 total difference in MA. I opted for passenger registration since that allowed me on the most roads and best city parking privileges.

Dan

[Old Crows]

Kat.. Try the library. Or, be bold and take it to a dealer and "wonder" about its trade in. Vs. blue book ...

[Aqua Puttana]

...
I need to figure this out soon since both my insurance policy and tabs need to be renewed by next week.

Thanks!

Kat
I think that Roger Sailquik has done a good service to help make us aware of some of the pitfalls of commercial vehicle issues as related to DOT inspection stations. In my mind he gets full credit for that and it should help us to make our decisions.

Kat,
In your case it may not be so important. If you walk like a duck... er, RV, then on the interstate you'll likely be considered a duck.

I'm not ready to break down your comments to individual answers because I think you have a good handle on your situation.

My opinion.

It is highly unlikely that you will have any problems DOT or officer wise. Even if you are pulled over, a cordial response will generally avoid great problems. Please don't try to educate an officer about the laws as apply to your Sprinter. It is like a red flag to a bull.

The ability to discontinue insurance seasonally has some advantages.

By not declaring your vehicle as an RV and insuring it as such then you do risk some additional value lost in the event of a total loss (fire, catastrophic collision) turned into your insurance company. They will consider you to be under-insured and pay out based upon your policy. Any collision loss caused by another party and covered under their insurance should generally be paid as to the actual cost of repairs necessary to restore your vehicle.

All in all, except for the possiblity of total loss not being covered by your insurance, if your present registration and insurance mode works for you then continue it. BUT, I don't have all the facts and I'm not an insurance agent so FWIW. vic

[autostaretx]

Kat: There are other insurance companies which will cover storage periods.
If you ever join Camping World's "Good Sam" or (extinct) "President's Club", your mail box will forever be filled with such offers.
Heck... just drop into any CW store (Fife, Burlington) and there are scads of handouts (and the occasional agent).

--dick (passenger vehicle (ignore the bed (fold,fold)... see? it's a seat!))

[jdcaples]

I called the county auditor's office and asked what kind of license plate I have. I was told that the dealer listed the use as a "truck" (with van body) and that THEY do not consider it a commercial vehicle and that if they did, the registration would say the use is "commercial" and would most likely be registered under a business name.

I'm wondering if this would this be obvious (truck license versus commercial license) to some state trooper who pulled me over me because I didn't stop at a weigh scale or who was suspicious and just decided to pull me over?

The lady at the auditor's office said I could also re-register the van as a personal vehicle instead of an RV and fees would be based on weight. The cost would be a bit more than what it costs now with a "truck" license, but less than an RV license. She also said that I should register it as an RV if it has amenities like a bed, toilet, sink, etc. because if I got pulled over, a state trooper could inspect it and tell me to get it licensed as an RV. I'm not too worried about that.

I'm wondering if there is some advantage in licensing it as an RV over a personal vehicle, or if since it is (by my state) considered a truck/van and not a commercial vehicle to just leave it as is.

The cost per year for a truck is $51.00, for a passenger vehicle $64.00, or for an RV $112.00 (but it would cost an extra $40.00 to change it to passenger or RV this year).

If I insure it as an RV, my insurance agent said I need to come up with a value for it and I could use receipts for my van conversion to justify that part. But after searching the internet, it looks like there is no FREE source like NADA or KBB to get a value on a used Sprinter van. Apparently there is a commercial NADA book that costs $120.00 :shifty: In addition, my insurance company says that if I insure it as an RV, that is a yearly policy and that I can't suspend the insurance when I'm not driving it.

I need to figure this out soon since both my insurance policy and tabs need to be renewed by next week.

Thanks!

Kat

I purchased my van at a Portland, OR dealership. When I brought my van into WA, I picked up plates in Battle Ground, WA. The person that took the dealership sales paperwork and registered the van went out to look at it. I told her it was a personal vehicle. She asked me to open it. I asked if she was looking for a toilet. I was joking but she said, "yep." I asked why. She said it'd have to be an RV if I had one.

I ended up with commercial plates even though I told her it was not being registered under a business.

One advantage I have is that if I'm picking someone up in an office building down town, cops to look twice; once at the commerical plates, then they leave me alone.

I did get lost on the way to Portland earlier this year. At 5 am, I was driving aimlessly around a neighborhood built up around a mall (I was looking for McDonalds, which I saw from the freeway). The cop asked if it was mine, or a business. I said mine. He let me go after telling me which turns to take to get back to the coffee.

I think commercial plates offer me a little latitude.

As for weigh stations on the highway, I've driven past ones that were open and with troopers in cars waiting to pounce. I don't do it daily, but maybe two or three dozen times in the last five years. I've never been pulled over for failure to weigh in on WA or Interstate highways.

I forget what your van looks like now. If it looks like a camper, I'd probably advise you to register it as an RV.... but that's me.

As for insurance, it's insured for replacement value. My agent didn't balk ask any questions or try to upsell coverage.... of course, all my insurance policies are with that office, so maybe being a 14 year customer bought me courtesy.

FWIW
-Jon

[jdcaples]

<snip>
--dick (passenger vehicle (ignore the bed (fold,fold)... see? it's a seat!))

I just thought about a halloween prank, writing "Don't you be knockin' if this van's a rockin!" in saddle soap on the side of your blue van.... but you're smart and you'd probably find me, get me back with "Free Candy" on the side of my upscale, window-less stalker-type van; or maybe you'd just write "FBI" on the side.... so let's just leave our vans out of halloween, 'k? :) I know when I'm out-gunned in the brain department.

-Jon

[Aqua Puttana]

...
I did get lost on the way to Portland earlier this year. At 5 am, I was driving aimlessly around a neighborhood built up around a mall (I was looking for McDonalds, which I saw from the freeway). The cop asked if it was mine, or a business. I said mine. He let me go after telling me which turns to take to get back to the coffee.

I think commercial plates offer me a little latitude.

...
-Jon
I have passenger plates, but I think that my Sprinter walks like a duck.

I park in loading zones quite often when I am actually unloading/loading. No hassle so far.

In my favor this time...

I went the wrong way into a "buses only" area at a Florida casino while trying to drop off my wife and sister-in-law so I could nap while they gambled. The guard looked up, hesitated, and then waved me on. I have a full complement of dark tinted windows so that may help.

Almost went the other way for me here:

Just the other day I stopped to pay the toll into Canada.

The collector said I was a bus.

I said that I was a van.

She then asked how many seats I had back there. (Tinted windows.)

I replied "two".

She then said that if I seated 10 or more I was a bus.

My reply was no problem, I only seat "8".

She accusedly replied that I told her only two seats.

I replied "Yes. Two seats, 3 passengers each".

"WELL... I thought you meant two bucket seats."

"Sorry, no. But I only still seat 8 people max."

"WELL, EXPECT TROUBLE WITH THIS at the bridges."

I said "Thank you" and drove away.

So yes, I guess we can have issues as Sprinter owners. vic

[autostaretx]

Jon: i depend upon soaping incidents... add rain and i've had my free car wash for the year.

Vic: i have non-tinted windows.
That only caused a potential ruckus once when we (in bed-in-van mode) had one of my wife's stained glass tables (with price tag affixed) in back, too.
After a few back-and-forth questions/answers, i merely had to state "we're not conducting any business in Canada", and they waved us through.
(i wasn't lying... we'd taught a class in Washington the previous day, and were simply taking the long way back to Seattle (a week on Vancouver Island))

--dick

[Kat]

Thanks everyone for your advice.

I spoke with my State Farm insurance agent again today and she said that if I insured my van as an RV, it would be not only a yearly policy that can't be suspended, but I'd be limited to 5,000 mi per year. Well, that was enough for me to NOT want to have it insured as a motor home.... besides the fact that it costs more to license it as a motor home.

Then I asked her if it would change anything else with them if I changed it to a passenger van and she said no, that they already consider it non-commercial and as a passenger vehicle. So with that designation I could still suspend it if I want to and reinstate full coverage on my car. I don't know, but it doesn't make much sense to me to fully insure 2 vehicles when I can only drive one at a time. I'll put the Subaru back on full coverage if we get a Northeaster and for some reason I need to go out in it. I guess I should probably put some fuel stabilizer in the tank and run it for a bit, and then unhook the battery, or maybe run it back and forth in the driveway once a month.

Anyhow, I went down to the county auditor's office and talked with them about the license. They said it is a truck plate, just like a commercial truck has, only they don't consider it commercial. I asked them how an out of state trooper would know the difference and they said the trooper would look at my registration. :shifty: Well, I don't want to have to worry about being chased down by troopers in other states who may think the van is a commercial vehicle... as remote a possibility as that may be. I don't know about you, but when I see flashing lights behind me my adrenalin lets loose. (No, I don't get frequent tickets... only got one in my 43 yrs of driving... knock on wood). Anyhow, I thought it would be wise to avoid the anxiety or stress associated with having commercial plates. Also I don't have any need to park in a loading zone, so there's no benefit for me to have commercial plates for that.

So licensing it as a passenger vehicle seemed like the best option. I brought my recent CAT scale weight along in case they wanted it, but the lady never asked for it; she just went off of the original weight of the vehicle which made the price cheaper than I thought it would be (I guess they only needed that if I changed it to a motor home). So they did charge me for new plates and a filing fee, but the total only came out to $77.75. She said next year it will cost $53.75 to renew the tabs (only $2.75 more than having truck/commercial plates).

They said that if I had wanted to license my van as a motor home, all it needed to have is a bed, a sink, and a toilet and that they don't inspect the van for those things and I didn't need to provide them with any documentation. My van does have a sink, a bed and a porta-potty. But I'm thinking that I really don't need the porta-potty in there. In the off chance that a state trooper would stop me and question why it isn't licensed as an RV, I could say I have no toilet :). During my 24 day road trip in August, I only used the darned thing once and could have just as well used the camp bathroom. It really wasn't worth the hassle of having to clean the darned thing out. I mean you can find a toilet for #2 just about anywhere... McDonalds, a gas station, campground, etc. I found that the female urinary device and a bottle was easy enough to use if I needed to get up and pee in the night and the bottles are a whole lot easier to clean out!

Anyhow, I'll be putting the passenger vehicle plates on the van tomorrow.

Kat

[autostaretx]

Kat: in the old days, the only difference between non-commercial Truck and Car plates in Washington was that the truck plate started with a single letter, versus a car's three-letter preamble. I'd be surprised if further-than-Oregon (and California) police would be aware of that subtle distinction.
There are lots of other reasons that any state can decide to pull you over... got a suction-cup on your windshield? (for GPS, cell phone or note pad?). Illegal in many states.

I was happy to see one of the other replies mention that at least one state accepts having seat anchors in the back maintains "car"-ness. Some states regulations say "seats", without providing for unclipping them (you can fold 'em, but you've gotta hold 'em).

If not having a sink allows me to claim i'm not an RV, i'm happy (and legal... here).
Having a full set of windows probably helps me maintain that image, too. And no built-in cabinetry.

good luck, may your rear view continue to be absent of any blue blinking lights....
--dick