The Quest for Control

[sikwan]

One of the many things that I thought needed attention was a way to get the Aux Heater working using the OEM remote. There were mornings where I had to run outside in my pajamas to turn on the heater because I forgot to program the timer the night before.

Since I had done it to my other vehicle, it was time to work on the Sprinter. I was curious to see if it was possible to use the stock keyless entry system in the Sprinter for my needs. Here's what I found.

1343
This is where the box resides; right behind the gauge cluster.

1344
The connector that I'm interested in.

1342
This is the pinout for the keyless entry system.

The only pins that had any usable signals on the line when pressing the remote lock and unlock buttons were 4, 9, and 10. All were 12V lines. After some more probing, I found that pins 4 and 10 didn't have any noticeable difference except 4 was active high and 10 was active low. Only pin 9 was discernable, which was good news to me. :thumbup:

1345
Unlock signal off pin 9. A 114ms wide six point square wave.

[sikwan]

1347
Pressing the lock button yields a 948ms wide six point square wave.

1346
The width of one of the three point square waves is 76ms.

I haven't decided how I'm going to decipher the signal, but at least the signals are different enough for me to use.

This is my initial plan.
3rd unlock will open the Fan-tastic Vent.
4th unlock will open the driver's/passenger's window and Fan-tastic Vent.

2nd lock will turn on the heater.

All will work within a certain timeframe that I haven't figured out yet. It's all preliminary still. I still have to figure out the hardware, write the software, and get some sleep. :snore:

Seek

[georgetg]

Seek

Your resourcefulness never ceases to amaze me!
I am impressed.


Cheers
George

[kkanuck]

Seek, .......The Ultimate Control Wiring Guru.......I love it.

I am eager to learn......keep us posted with your most interesting quest!


Tibor

[BaywoodBill]

sikwan wrote "There were mornings where I had to run outside in my pajamas to turn on the heater because I forgot to program the timer the night before."

C'mon, seek, it doesn't get that cold in San Jose.

[sikwan]

Thanks guys!

sikwan wrote "There were mornings where I had to run outside in my pajamas to turn on the heater because I forgot to program the timer the night before."

C'mon, seek, it doesn't get that cold in San Jose.

:shhh:...okay, maybe I'm just lazy. :smirk:

[BaywoodBill]

Richard sure jumped on that bit about the pajamas, didn't he?

[Black Sprinter]

Richard sure jumped on that bit about the pajamas, didn't he?

One of the many things that I thought needed attention was a way to get the Aux Heater working using the OEM remote. There were mornings where I had to run outside in my pajamas to turn on the heater because I forgot to program the timer the night before.

Since I had done it to my other vehicle, it was time to work on the Sprinter. I was curious to see if it was possible to use the stock keyless entry system in the Sprinter for my needs. Here's what I found.

1343
This is where the box resides; right behind the gauge cluster.

1344
The connector that I'm interested in.

1342
This is the pinout for the keyless entry system.

The only pins that had any usable signals on the line when pressing the remote lock and unlock buttons were 4, 9, and 10. All were 12V lines. After some more probing, I found that pins 4 and 10 didn't have any noticeable difference except 4 was active high and 10 was active low. Only pin 9 was discernable, which was good news to me. :thumbup:

1345
Unlock signal off pin 9. A 114ms wide six point square wave.

Nice scope!!:drool:
bill

[sikwan]

Richard sure jumped on that bit about the pajamas, didn't he?

No kidding. It must be an Australian thing. :D

I know of another Australian in the Bay Area that jumped on it when I mentioned that I wore one of those clean room garbs (bunny suits). :bounce:

Seek

[sikwan]

Nice scope!!:drool:

Yeah, it was the bottom most line of the digital Tek scopes when I bought it 6 years ago. For home use and being a tech geek, I can't live without one. It's awesome! :thumbup:

Seek

[poolmike]

Seek...After all of this effort you will still have to run outside in you pajamas to get your remote to do anything to your van.:smirk:

[sikwan]

Seek...After all of this effort you will still have to run outside in you pajamas to get your remote to do anything to your van.:smirk:

:laughing: You're not kidding on the remote. Hopefully I can fix the range as well.

Seek

ps. And next time, I'll change into my work clothes. :tongue:

[tegimr]

So, how did it turn out?

Tim

[sikwan]

So, how did it turn out?

It didn't. At least not yet. :D

I have a long ways to go before I have anything solid. I'm quite positive that it won't become vaporware too.

There are a few things that I need to iron out before I go into the design phase.

1. What type of input would I need to enable/disable the aux heater timer. What kind of buffer do I need between the microcontroller and the timer?

2. What type of control do I want for the Fan-Tastic Vent, how do I control it?

3. Same thing for the power windows as #2. Also, do I integrate it into the black box or do I drive an external relay? Do I want up and down or just down (having kids around is safety factor)?

I have to figure out the inputs, outputs, and feedback needed for the above three before I can sit down and do some laying out of the pcb, not to mention the software to do everything. I just don't think I can finish this overnight, but finish it I will. :smilewink:

Seek

[BaywoodBill]

I still say it doesn't get that cold in San Jose.

[sikwan]

I still say it doesn't get that cold in San Jose.

:laughing:

[tegimr]

It didn't. At least not yet. :D

I have a long ways to go before I have anything solid. I'm quite positive that it won't become vaporware too.

. . .

I have to figure out the inputs, outputs, and feedback needed for the above three before I can sit down and do some laying out of the pcb, not to mention the software to do everything. I just don't think I can finish this overnight, but finish it I will. :smilewink:

Seek

Hmmm. Would a PLC work well for preliminary work? Then pcb later?

[sikwan]

Hmmm. Would a PLC work well for preliminary work? Then pcb later?

Did you mean a Programmable Logic Controller? I guess anything would be helpful, except I don't have access to one. :smilewink:

Seek

[sikwan]

Finally got some time to look into this and decided that instead of reinventing the wheel, I'm going to reuse a current design that I have access to. It has mostly everything I need and probably more than what I really need to accomplish this task. The best thing is the cost will be minor because it's not a ground up design.

A modified version of the original schematic.
3617
Input/output signals are the gray squares and the micro-controller programming will be modified slightly.

PCB Board
3618
Some traces need to be cut and rerouted.

Going back to these two pictures...

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1345&d=1173842314
Unlock signal. 6 square waves within 114ms.

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1347&d=1173843810
Lock signal. 6 square waves within 948ms.

...I will be programming the counter inside the micro-controller to read square waves within 500ms or 1/2 a second.

6 square waves within 500ms will be the unlock signal.
3 square waves within 500ms will be the lock signal.

I may have to increase or decrease the 500ms interval depending on how the lock signal behaves. Since I'm dropping the remaining 3 lock signals, it may interfere with the overall reading. I also forgot to measure the signals to see if there is any overlap, meaning if I pressed the unlock button rapidly, how close are the consecutive 114ms six point square waves from each other. :thinking:

To reiterate:
3rd unlock will open the Fan-tastic Vent.
One of the 12V mosfets will be powering the vent. I might also crack the windows to provide air flow. I will reroute the switch (http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1530&highlight=fantastic+fan+switch)to one of the micro-controller inputs, this way I can have the micro-controller control the fan (open/close) either with the key in the run position or a timed control.

4th unlock will open the driver's/passenger's window and Fan-tastic Vent.
Since the windows are 25A fused and due to the arrangement of the switches, I had no choice but to include 2 Bosch relays into the mix. I'll use two of the grounding mosfets to activate the 2 relays independently.

I'm also trying to see if I can add some signal lines (input to the micro-controller) so that when I double-click the down position switch twice, the window will roll down automatically for either the driver or passenger.

2nd lock will turn on the heater.
I was going to go off the timer heater, but I'll instead supply a timed 12V to the same output of the 7 day timer module. Much easier than hacking into the timer. This timed output 12V will turn off once the key is in the run position.

That's it for now. :snore:

[anomaly]

I thought I was demonstrating geek-cred by pulling the dash apart and posting a wiring diagram for my stereo (that I horked from someone else.)

You've completely raised the bar now and there's no way I can attain your geekiness factor. I submit. You win! :clapping:

I never would have thought to go that direction to accomplish that kind of goal. Pretty cool!

[sikwan]

Geeks rule! :smirk:

It's hip to be square...:smilewink:

[Expert Marine]

I see you’re very capable of doing this on your own, but I’ll contribute my 2 cents.

I'v done security systems for custom shops, and car dealers years ago. My expedition has 7 windows that I control from the 4-button remote including the sunroof, and remote start.
For the windows I used the DEI 530T window modules.

These make the windows automatic like you want but with a single touch in each direction. If you tap the switch again they stop. They have to be wired dirrect to each motor to achieve this on both door switches. In some cars you can wire up all the windows in the drivers door. Driver has auto function, but not passengers. This is better because most passengers aren't as savvy as you and I. Other cars have a data line running to a module in each door that interprets the commands and controls the motor accordingly. This leaves you no choice but to run wires to each motor. I’d recommend 12g to each motor leg, and 20g to the switch legs. It’s easier to run thinner wire where possible.

They also sense resistance to shut down. This does two things. First, so they shut down when the window reaches its limit. Second, if a child gets his head or arm in the way it will also shut down.
The module responds to a negative pulse by venting the windows, if you extend the pulse for 3 seconds it will roll all the way down.
If you maintain a ground to the up wire they roll up all the way.
This usually goes to the negative when armed output of a security system.

DEI also has a module called the channel expander 450T.
It will read number of pulses and then send a negative pulse or latched negative signal on one of the channel outputs.
Example:
1 pulse= Ch1 front windows down.
2 pulses= CH2 rear windows down.
3
4
5 (you get the picture)

CHANNEL EXPANDER Designed to give an existing system the ability to add features such as
Remote start, trunk release, power window automation, radio turn on/off and other transmitter-operated
Options by creating extra output channels. The unit's outputs can be programmed to be pulsed/validity,
Latched reset with ignition or timed (30, 60 or 90 seconds). The 450T uses an existing output from a host
System to generate six new channels and can be used with almost any aftermarket alarm system or
Factory keyless-entry system. The output of the host system must be instant (it must supply an output the
Moment the transmitter button is pressed) 450T

[sikwan]

Thanks Surg, I have heard of that system and will look into it. :thumbup:

[BULBASOR]

Silkwan:

You are some kind of Sprinter Genius guru or somthing. :bow:Can I write your book? We could make millions!:bow:

[sikwan]

Thanks Bulbasor! :thumbup:

[Nate]

One of the many things that I thought needed attention was a way to get the Aux Heater working using the OEM remote.


I read this last night and was thinking about it today when I remembered that some of the VW TDI guys that added espar heaters to there cars also had 300' remotes to fire it off from inside the house.

I know you wanted to use the OEM remote Sikwan. But it may be easier to add a remote that is sourced from Espar.

Although maybe you've already checked that.

I may look into this myself because it would be really sweet for someone like myself that doesn't have a 7 day timer and also doesn't leave the house at the same time everyday.


Nate

[sikwan]

I know you wanted to use the OEM remote Sikwan. But it may be easier to add a remote that is sourced from Espar.

Thanks for the information Nate. :thumbup:

[Nate]

Sikwan, I've downloaded the Espar catalog form here -

http://www.espar.com/

They list a remote as Model # CA100156
This remote will work with all of their heaters whether they are air or coolant heaters.

So my new question is what model# is the heater in the Sprinter? Mine is not the programmable one so I guess its called the "heater booster".

The Sprinter heater are Espar correct?


Nate

[sikwan]

So my new question is what model# is the heater in the Sprinter? Mine is not the programmable one so I guess its called the "heater booster".

The Sprinter heater are Espar correct?


Nate, the Sprinter heater (p/n: 05124687AA) is an Espar unit, although I don't know what the model # is. I believe the models are the same whether it's turned on using the console switch, timer, or heater booster switch. However, if you only have "a heater booster" then you cannot use the remote until you wire the Espar to work independently (without engine running) via a console switch or timer.

Roger has a good write up on this...

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=668

...he turns his normal "heater booster" into an "aux heater" activated using a switch. Only difference between his and a timed unit is the timer. He can leave it running until the diesel runs low.

Going back to the remote, I think there's a receiver unit that comes with the Espar remote which attaches to the output of the Aux Heater switch or timer unit. The receiver gets a signal from the remote and activates the output line (12V). I believe it uses the same line that my timer uses to activate the heater.

[Nate]

Aahh, So I need to install a switch first.

Good to know. I'll probably run the switch first and then go from there.

Thanks for the help.