Transmission issues at such a young age

Chandlerazman

Active member
So, I brought my new two week old to me Sprinter ('08 3500) to the dealer with complaints of a rumble strip vibration when the tranny downshifts from 3rd to 2nd. They had it for four days before calling me to tell me it is an internal problem and the tranny has to come out. This is all the info I have :frown:
Should I trust the Dodge dealer to a rebuild on this??? I only have less than 2000 miles on the vehicle...




Simon
 

HappyFamilyVan

Captain Ahab
I have seen the term "rumble strip vibration" on this forum before....can any one please descibe in more detail? Thanks in advance.

I thought I was having transmission with my Sprinter at 3k mikes....so I had the dealer check..when the tech put the dipstick in...no fluid showed...he checked for leaks...no leaks....he checked again...still no fluid...so he added 1.5 bottle(liters) of ATF....then the stick showed fluid.

Worried that it might have been overfilled...I had it check by a different dealer...for the second time...no fluid...checked for leaks...no leaks...checked again...no fluid on stick...then the tech said...I have an idea...he got out the old style dip stick....not the new kind...the new kind's main shaft looks like a drain snake...coiled metal...the old kind's shaft was white plastic tube....guess what....he found fluid with the old style stick...it was not overfilled...but ATF completely covered the very end measuring piece plastic tip...tech said that the old stlye stick was more flexible...new style kept hitting something and would not go the whole way down to the fluidNote: the first tech old used the new style stick.

Has anyone experience issues in messuring fluid with the new style dip stick? What would the new stick be hitting that it could not wiggle past?

Before letting them drop my transmission, I would definately get a second opinion. Note: Per the dealers in my area, Sprinter transmissions are replaced...not repaired. Per Dodge, Freightliner, and MB(this transmission is used on some MB cars) the transmission is "bullet proof"...between these 3 dealers not one has ever replaced this transmission that they can remember. Good luck
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
(this [The Sprinter's] transmission is used on some MB cars)
From what I can tell, that's not true.

I don't have it with me, but I have the transmission number at home. The first 3 digits are the same, but no MBUSA, LLC car has my exact transmission model. The last three digits of my tranny number are not common to any MB car.

Having said that, my dipstick is from Miller Special Tools. It has (eight?) marks 10 mm apart. I have another one that has 2 hash marks, one towards the bottom for "cold" and one towards the top for "hot."

I suspect there are at least three versions running around North America... one with two hash marks, and two with more than 2 hash marks.

I am not aware of anyone running into issues getting the tip submerged in the pan because of an obstruction in the lumen of the dipstick tube.

I am aware of the opposite problem - shoving the stick so hard down the tube that it bends against the pan, providing a false overfilled measurement.

If the amount of added transmission fluid was more than say 1.5 litres (give or take), I think it was, in fact, low.

-Jon
 

bikergar

Active member
I have been told that this transmission is used in several vehicles with the difference being clutch packs. A tech told me, so it must be true :rolleyes:, that several Chrysler models including the Crossfire use our NAG transmission. The dipsticks used by the dealers is common to several models which makes sense as the measurement is based on bottoming out the tool.

gary
 

piper1

Resident Oil Nerd.
The NAG1 and even the WA580 variant of it are used in other MB product, the likely differences being the torque converter (diff stall speeds and possibly lock up clutch changes) and programming. The exact model numbers will chage foe the different combinations.

To the original poster, I highly doubt the dealer will re-build your transmission, they will install a new or re-manufactured transmission from the factory. Not something to run away from.
 
D

dilleyoshempy

Guest
Mines just started doing this, ~50k KM. It started around the 40K mark and would only occasionally do it, now its more often, though mines happens when it shifts from 2nd to 1st, my van has so many issues since new that i dont bother\care anymore. If you find a solution and get it fixed, please post it here, I will do the same.
 

Chandlerazman

Active member
So I visited the almighty Dodge dealer today to grab some tools and materials out of my van. I was disappointed to see my van sitting outside and commented that I need it done asap. I was assured they were working on it and the tranny was on the techs bench. We walked over to the bench and low and behold, there was my poor nice clean tranny is pieces with bird feathers stuck to the insides of the case... They tell me the clutch packs are at fault and have them on order. My comments were that the feathers may make the tranny shift faster and perhaps make the van fly... I am a patient guy but feathers? I sure hope they clean out the case and seal it properly upon assembly. Looking at the parts sprawled out and how small this unit is when apart, it looked kind of simple in nature. Truth be told, I would want my transmission reinstalled over a rebuilt unit with unknown miles. Sorry about no photos...

Simon
 

Chandlerazman

Active member
In clarification, the feathers are due to an open air shop and not that they were in there from manufacture!
On another point, with the van sitting outside, I wonder what is holding up the engine in place with the tranny out. I failed to take a looksie under as I was pressed for time.

Simon
 

Chandlerazman

Active member
Went to the dealer to get more materials out of my van and was happy to see my tranny was put back together. Sorry for the crappy photo, but it was the best I could do with a crackberry and low light :turd:



Simon
 

Chandlerazman

Active member
I went to the dealer this morning to pick up some more toolage for my business and was happy to see my van being backed out of the techs' bay. I asked him about when the van would be ready for pick up while I was rummaging through the bins and his response was in a couple of hours. He needed to reprogram the computer and top off the tranny fluid. Well I thought that was a good answer and off I went in my loaner 2500 sprinter. The day goes by and by 4pm I decided to call the dealer to find out when I could pick it up. Oh the anxiety was overwhelming until the service advisor tells me that he had bad news....The transmission still exhibited the rumbling vibration and that the tech was on the line with Star. I was told that they are trying to find an answer and if nothing else, replace the unit.
I sure miss my van :frown: It's really hard to work without all of my bits and pieces. I've driven the van for a week in the month I've owned it! Hopefully there will be an answer.

Simon
 

shanemac

Active member
That bites...tell them to add another half liter of tranny fluid and see what happens if the same add another half.... i mean at this point what could it hurt...make sure the new tranny is approved first:thumbup: Did they put a new torque converter in? too late now i guess. I mean i hate barking at the mechanics too its just to spark up ideas.

I have experienced some shudder from time to time on down shifts from second to first...seemed worse when i was slowing down from a heavy speed in a shorter distance on a incline meaning driving like a animal.:hmmm:
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
I'm really dismayed to read this story, and I'm full of sympathy for you Simon, too.

The only two things that are I find comforting about this have nothing really to do with being helpful to your situation.

1) Your experience is exceptional, not the rule.
2) It's unfortunate (btw, when I say "unfortunate," you can read it as "f'ing tragic and wholly pathetic") that after all these years, Chrysler is still so ill-equipped to deal with the exceptional challenges that some owners face. I'm sure both Daimler and Chrysler employees dropped the ball on this.

I hope Daimler Vans, LLC (or was it Daimler Vans North America, LLC?) is more able to manage the brand and the product, better transfer knowledge to field technicians, learns from the mistakes made from working with Chrysler, keeps doing what worked (I'm sure a lot worked, we're just not able to see the good things for all the fog), and brings the Sprinter to its rightful stature in the market as a van far superior to the alternatives.

It's probably naive of me, but I have to say that I am sorry to see the continuation of LLC shell companies.

I'm sure there's a good, "fiscally responsible" type reason for it, but really, it just seems to me that the LLC cr@p is just putting extra layers of abstraction between the customer and the OEM; just makes a gap into which faith, excellent customer service, exemplary product support may fall.

I wish we'd go back to dealerships that weren't independent contractors, but manufacturer employees that actually had an escalation path to product development for challenges like yours, Simon, in the field. Fat chance that'll ever happen. There has to be a better way. The eggheads have failed, says I. I think they should ask the field what would make things better and execute; the cost would be an "investment in the future."

Oh, and fire every single solitary marketing employee. The field is not the problem. Management is the primary challenge.

Wow... I'm ticked. :)

Obligatory on topic: let them struggle Simon, let the techs and support do their job, as slow and painful as it is. I am confident the result will be worth the wait. Work out compensation on the back end, perhaps by hiring legal representation.

-Jon
 
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Chandlerazman

Active member
I will admit through all this, my fleet salesman is really sympathetic with me. I feel that the service advisor is not really going out of his way to get this done fast enough, or better yet, communicate with me. I should not be the one calling for status. Overall, they are at the very least trying to fix the problem which is all I can ask for. I wish it were a little faster as per "Business link" that I was sold upon. Sure it's nice to have a loaner, but it really is useless without my shelving and materials. Even through all this, I still think this is one great van. I was told that my vehicle is the first they pulled the tranny out of. It's just my luck to get started like this. So, what should I have them do for me in consolation for this "heartache?!" I was thinking of having a free oil change when the time comes. I'm sure the salesman would have no problem with it...Let's see how the service advisor sees this.
I really was let down this afternoon expecting to get my van back. My plans were to add 12volt fluorescent lighting over the weekend. I ordered a new front bumper with the fog light provisions in it. The lights are already pre-wired by me and ready to go. Once I get it set up I will post some photos.

Simon
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
If it were me, I'd look at how much longer it's taking you to do your job, serve your customers, earn the same amount of money in a given day.

I don't know what you do, but if you were a plumber or an electrician, not having your van, your organized, fully equipped to do your job truck, might add (wild guess here) 25% to the time it takes to do an hour job, maybe 10% longer to do a day's job.... I'd add up the hourly rate, any costs you're "eating," due to this, and have that number handy.

For instance, let's say that you know it's going to take an extra 15 minutes to stage your work area because your tools and supplies are not organized, another extra 15 minutes to pack up. You try to keep the clutter organized, but you want get off site faster than that, so you toss a hammer here, toss a torch there.... your supplies were knocked around by the customer's driveway or a pothole, but you're not going to reorganize on your customer's dime, so you leave and clean when you get home. Let's say you spend 30 minutes moving stuff around, trying to lock things into place..... you forget your wire cutters at the dealership and you have to install a 30 amp circuit tomorrow, so you spend 45 minutes extra going to the dealership, waiting for someone to escort you to your truck, they can't find the key, so an hour later, you grab what you need.... all that adds up.

If it were me, I'd prepare an invoice for those hours, show it to them and the haggling begins.


It's your life. I'd like to know what you'll do, what would work for you....

-Jon
 

gary 32

07 ncv3 pv
Chandlerazman, Sorry to hear about your troubles. Here is a past post that may help describing my early issues and results.

I filed a complaint against Chrysler with the "New Motor Vehicle Board", these were my results it was fair and I am now a very satisfied owner.
My story started off a little rocky because I had an SRS module fail and a steering rack failure with under 1,000 miles. I was given a paid rental for a month the parts were all replaced by professionals at Glenn Thomas and for my trouble Chrysler offered to buy the Sprinter back, pay me a little over 8% of the total price in cash or comp a Chrysler 7 year all inclusive warranty. I almost gave it back but I took the warranty.

You do not need to hire an attorney or deal with the dealer go directly to Arizona's version of the New Motor Vehicle Board, file a complaint and have them deal with the responsible party, Chrysler. The compensation offered was fair, everyone was decent and it was fast and easy. My dealer encouraged me to use this process.
 
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danthewolf007

New member
the rumble noize might not be the tranny it could be the u-joints failing sloooowly. i had mine replaced at 125k and the noize is gone.:idunno:
 

Chandlerazman

Active member
I got the van back today with great excitement. Of course, the excitement fizzled quick after seeing the greasy dirt in the footwells and on my new Mercedes rubber mats. :wtf: My materials were scattered throughout the van from their "spirited" test drives. what irked me the most was the electrical wire spools which were broken from crash landing on the floor. The wire spool holders are metal and stout and would take quite some bumps to launch the 20 or so pounds off the reel bars. Well anyhoo, I receive it with no fuel, dirty handprints on the door, handles and interior door panel. Mind you, this van now has a whopping 2019 miles on it. The fuse box cover was laying open as I step in to take "Huey II" home. I get home and decide to wash all those filthy fingerprints off. Here's the kicker...As I am washing the hood, there is about a trillion rust spots all over it. At first, I thought the paint was really sh*ty but come to find that they must have been grinding somthing adjacent to the van. In fact there are rust spots along the horizontal edging surfaces that run to the rear on both sides. My interior lights do not shut off at all unless I manually turn the knob off at the front overhead and rear doors, my under seat power tap is no longer operational.
They affixed a sticker under the hood stating recall H44 is complete with a reflash of the computer. Could this be the cause for my underseat power not working or my interior lights not shutting off? There are no missing/burned out fuses. I plan on going back to the dealer in the morning with my concerns, especially with the rust spotting. I must get fuel first :rolleyes:

The tranny findings are a failed piston for k3 clutch. (uneven sealing surface) <----techs quotes from my paperwork
I did get an alignment after the 2nd complaint and they did verify it was off.
They could not find the slight under driver side exterior rattle I've been hearing.

Simon
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
They affixed a sticker under the hood stating recall H44 is complete with a reflash of the computer. Could this be the cause for my underseat power not working or my interior lights not shutting off?

Simon
Hi Simon,

I'm sorry to read about the abuse of your van. That's inexcusable.

H44 was an engine control module (ECM) electronic control unit programming update. That computer doesn't run lights.

Good luck

Jon
 

HappyFamilyVan

Captain Ahab
Sorry for all your issues. But I do have a thought....I am new to the Sprinter as well as diesel. Coming from US SUVs or pickups I am used to Luxury quiet and smoothness. With my Sprinter Wagon, I have heard many unusual noises...I now have 5000K miles and my only real complaint is my rear A/C saga...another thread....I have heard noises that could be my transmission, engine, ect...maybe I have "rumble strip" noise...but I do not know fore sure as I do not know what that is...in past experince with a new vehicles, I am hesiate to have a dealer fix or address issues unless they are real potiental damageing causeing issues. Reason: Working on a car is similar to surgery on a human...open it up and you are exposed to other issues such as infections, sponges left in, taking out my appendix when you go in for a nose job...They way I look at it and all my noises...shiffting issues...maybe this is normal and I just have to get used to it....since I am under warrenty...I will let it ride and if a major break happens...then I will take it in...I have come to the conclusion tjhe german engineers knew what they were doing...maybe differnt thinking then me...but they had reasons...example: people complain about the door locks and confusion...if you take time to think about the sequences they do make sense....maybe not the way I would have programmed...but they do make sense...In the end, I just drive and enjoy...if somethinmg bothers me I turn the radio up and cruise down the road...:bounce:

BTW...I really do feel for your issue and thier treatment of your vehicle is just plain wrong
 

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