Newbie conversion: cargo or passenger van?

[moab]

Newbie question for thoughts and opinions as to whether I am better off starting with a cargo van and adding windows and seats or starting with a passenger van and going from there...? I am looking to build a "minimalist" RV/family hauler with seating for 6. Thanks...

[boardster]

If you really want glass all the way around, you will save a lot of $ by starting w/ a passenger van.
But, the windows won't open.
There are very few passenger vans available though.
You are much more likely to find a good deal on a cargo than a passenger.

[sikwan]

Passenger.

[312 diesel (closed)]

It is easier to cut a window into a cargo van than it is to block up a window in a passenger van. If you want the full set of panoramic windows start with a passenger van. If you only want limited glass in strategic places start with a panel van.

[moab]

It is easier to cut a window into a cargo van than it is to block up a window in a passenger van. If you want the full set of panoramic windows start with a passenger van. If you only want limited glass in strategic places start with a panel van.

Thx for the thoughts. If you use a passenger van and need to block a window, what do you line the window with on the inside of the van? What's a typical approach.

[boardster]

Before you get too into the pros and cons, are you looking for new or used?
Again, there's no comparison as far as the availability.

[312 diesel (closed)]

The basic construction is that the spaces for the standard windows are present in all versions of the van, be it cargo or passenger. The area where the window goes is single skinned, bordered by an area with a spot welded flange where the inner reinforcing structure meets the outer skin. It is pretty much impossible to put that back once the window is cut into the side without doing extensive bodywork.

If you want to block off a window in a passenger van probably the only quick way of doing it is to tint it black and then put a skin on the inside if you want to put furniture there.

There isn't a right or wrong answer to this. It is probably also worth looking at the legal implications of what the vehicle is classed as. Where can it be parked, who can drive it, what does it cost to insure? There may well be variations depending on whether it is licenced as a passenger or as a cargo vehicle.

I'm in the UK, but here, for instance, you can't re register a vehicle as a motor home unless it meets certain criteria; it has to have a bed, a table and windows. People who build stealth campers without any windows in the side can't register them as motor homes. That in turn means that on certain roads they are subject to lower speed restrictions. Ultimately it is all down to what you want to build.

[moab]

The basic construction is that the spaces for the standard windows are present in all versions of the van, be it cargo or passenger. The area where the window goes is single skinned, bordered by an area with a spot welded flange where the inner reinforcing structure meets the outer skin. It is pretty much impossible to put that back once the window is cut into the side without doing extensive bodywork.

If you want to block off a window in a passenger van probably the only quick way of doing it is to tint it black and then put a skin on the inside if you want to put furniture there.

There isn't a right or wrong answer to this. It is probably also worth looking at the legal implications of what the vehicle is classed as. Where can it be parked, who can drive it, what does it cost to insure? There may well be variations depending on whether it is licenced as a passenger or as a cargo vehicle.

I'm in the UK, but here, for instance, you can't re register a vehicle as a motor home unless it meets certain criteria; it has to have a bed, a table and windows. People who build stealth campers without any windows in the side can't register them as motor homes. That in turn means that on certain roads they are subject to lower speed restrictions. Ultimately it is all down to what you want to build.


Thanks for the insight. I hadn't considered the insurance issues. I don't think we have the speed restriction in the U.S., so at least that's one less thing to consider. Cheers.

[d_bertko]

It may depend on what you mean by "minimal" rv conversion.

You'll get a lot of "limo" fit and finish for a people hauler by starting with a passenger van. This might be preferred if want max visibility for the riders and care much less about heating, cooling and ventilation in camp.

T-slider or awning rv windows give you screens and ventilation that sealed windows do not. They're generally easier to install in a cargo van but may be able to retrofit in place of passenger van glass. I think windows with screened openings are pretty essential for camping comfort.

More windows mean more heat loss and more heat gain. Probably not a problem on the road but an important factor for drycamping. Less so if you plan to camp plugged into shore power most of the time. A corollary is that you get more control over insulation and moisture retention if you choose your own interior materials.

The Sprinter is big and noisy enough that a people hauler should probably put the seating as close to the front as possible. Otherwise it is harder to include all the passengers in a conversation. This implies windows in the rear sides and back are less important.

A window in the sliding door improves the driver's visibility; the remaining cargo positions are not very important for that purpose.

Our diy 02 long tall 2500 Sprinter is heavily insulated and has two center panel windows plus a sliding door window. We use the extra wall space all of the time for various forms of cargo. It'd be somewhat more painful to have to protect a window. Our layout puts the kitchen center-forward where the windows are useful. Our bed in the rear "cave" is nicely private, quiet and well vented by the Fantastic Fan overhead. The compromise is that our bed that converts into bench seating for 6 limits the scenery for the rearmost riders. Not a problem for us since its layout is mainly for the two of us.

[BaywoodBill]

Sikwan has posted pictures of certain aspects of his conversion.

[moab]

It may depend on what you mean by "minimal" rv conversion.

You'll get a lot of "limo" fit and finish for a people hauler by starting with a passenger van. This might be preferred if want max visibility for the riders and care much less about heating, cooling and ventilation in camp.

T-slider or awning rv windows give you screens and ventilation that sealed windows do not. They're generally easier to install in a cargo van but may be able to retrofit in place of passenger van glass. I think windows with screened openings are pretty essential for camping comfort.

More windows mean more heat loss and more heat gain. Probably not a problem on the road but an important factor for drycamping. Less so if you plan to camp plugged into shore power most of the time. A corollary is that you get more control over insulation and moisture retention if you choose your own interior materials.

The Sprinter is big and noisy enough that a people hauler should probably put the seating as close to the front as possible. Otherwise it is harder to include all the passengers in a conversation. This implies windows in the rear sides and back are less important.

A window in the sliding door improves the driver's visibility; the remaining cargo positions are not very important for that purpose.

Our diy 02 long tall 2500 Sprinter is heavily insulated and has two center panel windows plus a sliding door window. We use the extra wall space all of the time for various forms of cargo. It'd be somewhat more painful to have to protect a window. Our layout puts the kitchen center-forward where the windows are useful. Our bed in the rear "cave" is nicely private, quiet and well vented by the Fantastic Fan overhead. The compromise is that our bed that converts into bench seating for 6 limits the scenery for the rearmost riders. Not a problem for us since its layout is mainly for the two of us.

Thanks very much for the insight. I think my next step is to map out what I want to build, and then see whether it would be easier/cheaper to start with a cargo or passenger van.

[glasseye]

I've debated this issue for two decades of Asstro driving. I've had two passenger versions and cabinet/storage locations and bunks were always thwarted by the windows.
My SomedaySoonSprinter will be a cargo. :rad:

[boardster]

Does anyone know how many passenger Sprinters have been shipped to the U.S.?
My guess is less than 1/2 of 1% of vehicles.

[cedarsanctum]

We actually ordered a new 170" cargo van with windows all around. The left rear windows are blocked some by the cabinets built there. The bed is at a height that you can lie in bed and see out almost all around, and above through the skylight. When camped in the wild it cannot be beat. For other times there are curtains.

Jef

[dronsin]

Adding widows is not a big deal. The oem windows are glass with a rubber grommet that fits over the cutout.
(one issue is what stamping line to cut on, and the other is getting the glass and gasket ordered for a vehicle with vin that does noit have original windows - drives the parts people nuts - will say wrong vin, and cant seem to order anything without it.) That said, there are several window aftermarket styles available for the sprinters. CRLawrence is a mfg in LA, CA that has a full line, though I do not like their interior clamping frame.
Trimout of interior can be messy with aftermarket windows. check details. The oem are not fancy, but if you simply paint the interior, it will look efficient and not ugly.
Figure about $1000 to $1200 (wholesale) for all the glass on a long body. CRL has sunroofs too.

Dronsin

[gregowski]

Another issue that I'm not sure anyone has mentioned is load-carrying characteristics. If I recall correctly (can't remember from where -detailed specs?), not all the passenger vans have both front and rear stabilizer bars, plus I think the spring setup is different. If you are doing a super-duper conversion and adding big loads, this might be an issue ( I see there are other threads on the forum about improving ride characteristics with Koni shocks and sway bars). This is part of the reason why we chose a cargo van for our conversion.

Also, there are just a lot more cargo vans around - and the price our converter charge for 4 OEM (CRLawrence) tinted sliding-screen-bottom windows was only $1600, which we saved upfront by buying a cargo van.

[glasseye]

and the price our converter charge for 4 OEM (CRLawrence) tinted sliding-screen-bottom windows was only $1600, which we saved upfront by buying a cargo van.

Is that a parts-only price? Or is that including installation?