PDA

View Full Version : 06-07 Sprinter emission compliant


Altered Sprinter
11-30-2006, 07:13 AM
Chrysler Group announces new diesel engines
upi8751_1.jpg (http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=352&stc=1&d=1164865849)
30-11-06 AEST
Daimler-Chrysler's Group planes to bring at least four vehicles to market with new clean-burning diesel technology in the next four years:thumbdown:

the vehicles will be equipped with Daimler Chrysler's ''Blue-tec" engine. The auto maker say's it reduces soot and nitrogen oxide emmisssions by "tripple- cleaning exhaust".

Auburn Hills (Michigan) based Chrysler also says diesel's typically offer 30-percent better fuel economy over conventional gasoline engines.
Chrysler already offers diesel in its Jeep Liberty and Grand Chrokee S-U-V's , Dodge Ram pickups and Sprinter Models.
END QUOTE

I personally find this to be at compleate odds with the Daimler-Benz synergeis of management between the two coprorate divisions of Chyrsler and Daimler-Benz?
My thoughts are as to the latest Sprinter 07 being delayed by almost twelve months? and with the first batch on offer, switching back to the gasoline engine, proven fact the engine has no low torque as it's at the high end, is restricted to heavy loads over 3.5 tonn.
The current Sprinter is fully compliant to Euro 4 and Euro 5 emission standards in force now, US EPA bin emissions are altered to differ by class of vehicle the Sprinter falls into this latter catergory as it is classed a commercial vehicle with dual wheels, therefore it is restricted to use in some counties on (A) weight, (B) emission standards in the top five U.S. States with the higher emisssion standards, as the current particulate exhaust system does not meet Euro 5 or Bin 8 U.S Standards for 2008
Blue-tec IS AVAILABLE AND BEING DISTRIBUTED IN THE UK, EUROPE AND AUSTRALIA...FOR COMMERICALLY RATED VEHICLES (c) that have a GVW rating over 3.5 tonn
Tests in the U.S confirm the Diesel complies to all 50 States for 2008, the v6 diesel just came through as it was tested useing random U.S Diesel and thats where part of the problem lies,as the ULSD Rateing vary from the said 15ppm to 22ppm
U.S. Govenment specifications are now mandatory with sulphur content set to 300PPM but not to exceed 500ppm if it is at 22ppm then this means it is over 800ppm eg, problems with fuel mean ECG units will be effected unless a quality upper cylinder luricant is used to break down the contaminated fuels.
As I am limited to what can be placed within a single thread, I'll let the members ask any questions they wish, as I can explain most of the issues.
"Honest guys there is just too much information to print in one session."

It may be of interest to note: there are three exhaust engine management systems on the go..BLUE-tec, By Mercedes The Sun Diesel concept by Chrysler. Daimler uses a Urea wet system to break down the final particel emissions which does not effect performance of the engine, the Chrysler Sun Diesel concept is effected by power out put, and the engine management, system can not rectify the powerloss as a result one will have a poorer fuel economy return on MPG' as fuel particlization is burnt off within the engine it's self.
the carbon particles are collected in a particle trap that is serviced each time the vehicle is in for it's maintenance periods. The problem with Blue-tek specific to the U.S... is in two factors of seperate critera's , one being Distribution of the Blue-tec addative, as the vehicle will not run without it and it may at the moment be just to expensive to set up as the oil manufactures are not really interested in this product, it can be made by any Chemicial company, problem is where to place the holding tanks, fuel outlets are not an option! as to the fuel companies not making a buck out of it

The third concept is an electric charge set in the exhaust powered by a generator simular to a brake boster unit, this generates the spark that is sent into the exhaust which immediatly dentonates the smokeor carbon particle emissions via a charge between postive an neutral, Quantum physics dictate that there is a rascal element which the charge will pick up on to effectivally elimate and arrest any particles being let into the atmosphere
This system was invented in 1961 for California and was never taken up , it was concidered to be too radical for the day, the scientist "Dr Julius Sumner Miller" migrated to Australia and became a favourite to everyone.
His favourite catch phrase was " Why is it So":bounce:

One advantage of the Sun Diesel concept is the V6 is a heavy duty motor same as the Mercedes Diesel V6 desinged to use any types of fuel alternative, such as Bio- Diesel any grade the head, valves and pistons to the bore, have been reinforced to take the higher burn need to burn off the excess "CARBON PARTICLE EMISSIONS"
EDITED BY RICHARD FERGUSON
SCR_Kat_E.jpg (http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=353&stc=1&d=1164870651)


turbolrg.gif (http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=354&stc=1&d=1164870729)



ULSD.gif (http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=355&stc=1&d=1164870764)

Altered Sprinter
11-30-2006, 07:59 AM
" BLUE-TEC WORKS "

Included in this thread is a google animation on the principles of how the system works

General information on Mercedes-Benz Bluetec
Official site
Mercedes-Benz - BlueTecŪ - The new SCR diesel technology (http://www4.mercedes-benz.com/specials/scr/en/index_nocom_en.htm)

Google it:popcorn:

So funktioniert BlueTech - Google Video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-24730293774824935)



Down side it's spoken in German , however The animation speaks for it'self.
The schemmatic is of the Chrysler Sun diesel concept for particle emmissions.."Top Left hand corner..

post-7836-1152014116.jpg (http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=356&stc=1&d=1164871953)
Emission co and Nox diagram for blue-tec


mercbluetecl00001.jpg (http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=357&stc=1&d=1164872906)

Mercedes E-320 released at the NY motor show 2006
Particulate filter trap and end of exhaust stores particle waste
mercbluetecl00002.jpg (http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=358&stc=1&d=1164873144)
Vehicle shown at the NY Motor show 2006

mercbluetecl00009.jpg (http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=359&stc=1&d=1164873303)

Living proof that Blutec has made an entry to the U.S.A
Fully compliant to all specifications in all 50 states.
Just ASK DR Z:idunno:reminds me of the old sitcom Laugh in
Here come de' Judge, sock it to me, sock it to me:lol:
I Know nothing?
bluetec_06.jpg (http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=360&stc=1&d=1164873887)

Zach Woods
11-30-2006, 10:45 AM
Hello Richard -

Thank you for getting this information together and posting it in one place for everyone!

I have at least one question right away. It sounds like a blue-tec engine may not be able to function correctly when running bio-diesel. To the best of your understanding do I have that right or am I mis-understanding something?

Thanks,

Zach

Altered Sprinter
11-30-2006, 12:32 PM
Hi Zack
In part you are correct, in part bio-Diesel is and can be run with the rating of B5 no more the chrylser dealerships were faxed or and e-mailed this information in July this year to pass on to the customers based on the evidence available too many were using home made brew , it works effectivaely in a warm climate, but tends to freeze up in a colder climate due to the high corrosive nature of some of the non specific fuels seals were failing injectors were blocking up and the fuel was not getting sprayed through in a normal pattern to burn the said fuels off, However The information sent via the DCX Group was floored based on the information regarding the said fuel ,as it was specific to the guidelines of Fuel watch!a European suggested guideline between auto manufactures it was not correct based on the fact that metting took place in 1999.
Both the new V6 Engines are as previously stated desinged to take alternative fuels soya base corn crop products as it is a workable and viable fuel alternative the new heads, have a finer high pressure injector system to force a higher burn rate of the said varying types of fuel alternatives, which was why the block was reinforced with heavy hardened pistions valves crankshaft and new balances etc, the difference between the concept of the Sun Diesel and the Bluetek although simular in engine design as it is shared, to cost cutting between the two makers , the different exhaust systems are totally different, Sun Diesel designed for the U.S specific for alternative fuels which is in part why the burn process is within the engine management system proir to entering the exhaust chambers, Bluetc the process starts at the exhaust manifold behind the twin in line turbo units yes there is two turbos one is the main charger the second is the secondary charger for the extra bost on pressure , to cope with this, there are two overhead camshafts, one for each bank of cylinders, Blutec will take standards Diesel and bio B10 to B15 more as the regulations up the anti for the future emission standards as you are aware the U.S has never been a heavy user of diesel where in the rest of the world it's takeing over as a storm Australia imports the Sprinters in Diesel only format but other makers like VW have captured almost 50% of the diesel market , we pay more for Diesel than Petrol (Gas) but the energy savings amd longivity of the engines far out weigh the negative down sides of the cheaper Petrol variants, even Toyota have come in with Diesel now that's an indicator that although both Honda and Toyota are more for the hybird variations, Diesel comes in a natural first as the future primary engine which also allows for adapation of Hydrogen cell technology they work well together, as I have said before Diesel is not perfect But in fairness to the arguement If the world switched to Diesel today the fuel production would drop 45% the energy savings would equate to a full 100% in energy costings pollution would drop to below world war 1 emissions we would have a healthy planet, with this golden oppertunity we would reslove the demand the U.S relies on of imported oil, from the middle East. OPEC would cry foul :smilewink: who cares! they controlled and manipulated the oil prices, since the sixties, enough is enough.
With the North Americian sector production of quality fuel has never been good which effects many of the latter model engines in gas and oil , however it will take the U.S at leat 10 to 20 years to replace and upgrade it's ageing infrastrurture's before it can turn around the economic wealth of it's economy's which is why 2012 is the target for fuel to catch up with other countries such as Main stream Europe, UK and Australaisa Australia began this process back in 1972 we have been slow but it is starting to benefit our nation.
Link's to fuel and oil
ZDDP OLDER ENGINES - Topic Powered by eve community (http://forums.noria.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/616604995/m/3011052071)
Fuel Problems -- Filtakleen USA. (http://www.filtakleen-usa.com/additive/problems.htm)
Hitchhiking Canada- Don't Buy Esso - Canada -digihitch.com (http://www.digihitch.com/canada12.html)
Richard

Zach Woods
11-30-2006, 01:31 PM
Hello Richard -

I know what Daimler Chrysler has OK'd / recommended concerning BioDiesel fuels in both the current US Sprinter engines and, I am guessing, the future blue-tec engines. I also know that folks are (no science on this, just anecdotal) running even as high as B100 without any apparent engine damage in the current US Sprinter engines.

What I was asking was is there anything about the blue-tec engine technologies that would rule bio-diesel out completely (I thought I might be hearing something like this in your posts). Sounds like that is not the case so we will just have to wait until somebody tries running greater than the recommended bio-diesel mixture and rely, once again, on anecdote.

Zach

Altered Sprinter
11-30-2006, 10:55 PM
Answer to the above question Blutec running on bio-fuel? yes it can up to B15 officially it is set at B10 but this depends on which country of origin it is being used in
The older in line five cylinder of course will run on bio-Fuels . Warning the U.S Sprinters did not get the ECG head change for the improved valves and injectors untill March 2004 where it was 2002 elsewhere, in 2005 there was a recall in the U.S for the head but this was on only some of the models I'm not sure which ones? but do have this info in archives
Bio fuels work if the formulations are right, there is no problem with this as they are a purer for form of a Diesel type fuel especially like Wille's bio fuel being sold in the midwest, vegie type waste oils is a dangerous option as to the non specific make-up of the product it needs a heater block to keep the said oils at a fluid consisity or it will frezze up one requires to have the right kit to make the product using a one micron filter the kits are available in the USA, The latter Diesels don't like it that much as to the alloy heads which corrode as a result of blocked injuctors systems , where valve faces burn and clog with carbon deposits when the back of the valves behind the face start to carbon up then thats when the oil and fuel start to mix that enters the engine, goes back into the exhaust system and the turbo seal falis and Bang (Damage done) coincidentally the older Mercedes pre 1987 I think have the cast iron head and those run bon pure 100% Bio-diesel Florida loves them , there are heaps running down there filling the air with the aramaic's of a fish and chip shop :bounce:
I'll find a write up on an Australian description of the B rated fuels to-nite when I arrive back home it has references to John Deere nothing runs like a Deere the cat engines and I think Western star with seals failure due to the corrosion effects on seals etc.
Richard

Altered Sprinter
12-01-2006, 12:07 PM
As promised here is the link to B100 it's an excellent read and very acurate writen by Professional chemists and validated by the CSRIO it is an Australian link but it also referes to the U.S
-=[ B100 - Fuel For The Future ]=- (http://mbm.net.au/b100/index2.html)
Click the second link on the top left hand corner.
HK.... your model Sprinter is the one model most effected in the U.S the 2002 Sprinter did not have a head upgrade untill 2004 it was recalled in the U.S for a fix in May 2005 I need to find the engine number rated O and the head number rated W Not all had these first prefix set of numbershttp://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/images/icons/icon5.gif

Note: It is up to the owner operator of the Dodge Sprinter as to which type of fuel one would use alternative Diesel ignition Improvers (SYNTHETIC)addatives help to maintain the engine for top performance.
Richard
365
Ran this one on MBCanada seems like I'm still walking and talking the same old story , but I love the Sprinters

366

hkpierce
12-01-2006, 05:25 PM
HK.... your model Sprinter is the one model most effected in the U.S the 2002 Sprinter did not have a head upgrade untill 2004 it was recalled in the U.S for a fix in May 2005 I need to find the engine number rated O and the head number rated W Not all had these first prefix set of numbers

Huh???

"My" model Sprinter is the only model Sprinter offered in the US for the relevant years of 2001-2002 - with the OM612 engine. In 2003 forward the only US Sprinter "model" is the OM647 engine. The speculation as why the change was (1) the abysmal reliability of the EGR valve - unique to the North American market; and (2) making the Sprinter 50-state emission compliant thus marketable in all 50 states for the first time. Unlike Australia, DC did not and does not offer multiple power and transmission options in the US and CND markets.

Further, there is no recall on the OM612 - with the exception of the EGR valves - not that any of those original ones are still around (mine lasted longer than most - 48,000 miles as compared to many that didn't make it out of the dealers' lots).

Altered Sprinter
12-01-2006, 10:13 PM
Huh???

"My" model Sprinter is the only model Sprinter offered in the US for the relevant years of 2001-2002 - with the OM612 engine. In 2003 forward the only US Sprinter "model" is the OM647 engine. The speculation as why the change was (1) the abysmal reliability of the EGR valve - unique to the North American market; and (2) making the Sprinter 50-state emission compliant thus marketable in all 50 states for the first time. Unlike Australia, DC did not and does not offer multiple power and transmission options in the US and CND markets.

Further, there is no recall on the OM612 - with the exception of the EGR valves - not that any of those original ones are still around (mine lasted longer than most - 48,000 miles as compared to many that didn't make it out of the dealers' lots).
Thank you for clearing that one up ! I like the last section , din't make it out of the dealers lot? remined me of the Edsel and the first Ford Falcon.
Food for thought, the 06 model has had the third head upgrade

PS: The head was upgraded in 2002 for Europe and Australia multiple engine power out puts and all two auto's plus the standard manual are here,the head change was for the injector and valves, because of the low sulphur fuels etc, I'm sure there is a reference to it on wolfgangs page! America did not have this altered head untill March or May 2004, the recall from dcx was not an official recall as such it was a quick fix for those still under warranty that had not been sold, or with those on the extended warranty period
Richard

Atlee
12-02-2006, 03:57 AM
Huh???

"My" model Sprinter is the only model Sprinter offered in the US for the relevant years of 2001-2002 - with the OM612 engine. In 2003 forward the only US Sprinter "model" is the OM647 engine. The speculation as why the change was (1) the abysmal reliability of the EGR valve - unique to the North American market; and (2) making the Sprinter 50-state emission compliant thus marketable in all 50 states for the first time. Unlike Australia, DC did not and does not offer multiple power and transmission options in the US and CND markets.

Further, there is no recall on the OM612 - with the exception of the EGR valves - not that any of those original ones are still around (mine lasted longer than most - 48,000 miles as compared to many that didn't make it out of the dealers' lots).

My Sprinter is a 2003 model year per the VIN #, but it has the OM612 engine.

Altered Sprinter
12-02-2006, 09:01 AM
My Sprinter is a 2003 model year per the VIN #, but it has the OM612 engine.
Hi Atlee
You have the VIN# year 2003! what is the plate year of manufacture or does Dodge/Freightliner put them on after sale? I'm trying to find the files reguarding to this, memory serves me right that those numbers went to 2004 but were not on all models, it's no big issue
Richard:cheers:

Atlee
12-02-2006, 04:44 PM
Hi Atlee
You have the VIN# year 2003! what is the plate year of manufacture or does Dodge/Freightliner put them on after sale? I'm trying to find the files reguarding to this, memory serves me right that those numbers went to 2004 but were not on all models, it's no big issue
Richard:cheers:


The chassis was built in October 2002, and Leisure Travel Vans did the RV conversion in January of 2003.

Altered Sprinter
12-02-2006, 10:49 PM
Hi Atlee
Thanks this lines up with My Mercedes information, It makes me curious to my thoughts, it's not a problem , just a quirk of differences as to why some of these came through with the older head.
Hey if you have a pic of your beast ! Would love to see it
Thanks Richard:thumbup:

Altered Sprinter
12-11-2006, 10:22 AM
Little interesting post on Blutec U.S style for all 50 states.
Note compliant since 2005 In Germany and many other parts of Europe.
2006_Godwin.pdf (application/pdf Object) (http://home.comcast.net/%7Eanthoni6/2006_Godwin.pdf)
Take the time and look at extended time frames for compliance up to 2020:thinking:
Richard

Altered Sprinter
01-27-2007, 06:21 AM
Chrysler Annoncement

Dodge Sprinter Emission compliant
Blutec will be used

Chyrsler announce the Dodge Sprinter will be compliant for the US Market 2010:thinking:
Oh' well better late than never.
Richard
0drEtmdv4FJPNRsM9ZV=2B8eJWBizvXppCj31lEBP3nKiFBtBC whNLjyaEWNYz39VDs2J861b81UTLkLEm0o2fTpgUkd9Xux1UEd wgRbjV6jag=3D (http://www.topix.net/r/0drEtmdv4FJPNRsM9ZV=2B8eJWBizvXppCj31lEBP3nKiFBtBC whNLjyaEWNYz39VDs2J861b81UTLkLEm0o2fTpgUkd9Xux1UEd wgRbjV6jag=3D)

Blutec.jpg (http://www.sprinter-source.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=863&stc=1&d=1169959364)