Turbo Resonator Removal and Comparison

[sikwan]

I checked my resonator (http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3618&highlight=resonator) Q number and found out that it was not the updated Q5 version. I purchase the Q5 (05137154AB) from a local dealer for $55 and went about at removing it and comparing the two different Q# resonators.

Tools needed:
-Flat blade screwdriver
-E8 External Torx socket or 1/4 inch open ended wrench.

This picture shows the External Torx Bolts (E8) already taken out.
9374
I had the E8 socket, but as you will see later, the 1/4" open ended wrench was better for the job.

Worm Gear Clamp (Looking from the topside, passenger side of engine.)
9372

Two External Torx Bolts (E8) that need to be removed. (crawled underneath on passenger side)
9373
There was absolutely no room to stick a socket and wrench in the location. I had to improvise with the 1/4" open ended wrench because I didn't want to run out and buy a special tool, nor did I want to take everything apart just to get to two bolts.

After the clamp was loosened and the tube slid away, the two E8 bolts were removed (they weren't on very tight). The last part was to wiggle the resonator downward out of the turbo and then removed from the topside of the engine compartment.

I had the two resonators side by side.
9375
Q5 (left) and Q4 (right).

Close up stamping on the Q5 resonator.
9376

[sikwan]

Close up of the stamping on the Q4 resonator.
43437

20120608Edit: Added notes to pics for failure area. vic

Q5 clamp side of resonator.
43438



Q4 clamp side of resonator.
9379

Turbo side of resonator.
9382
Q5 (left) and Q4 (right)

I could not tell any visual differences, at least from the outside, and I was looking at them for at least 10 minutes. I installed the Q5 resonator and will be keeping the Q4 as a spare for a trip.

I haven't had any problems with the Q4.

[Altered Sprinter]

Were your shots perfectly aligned?
Other wise there are two differences.
Richard
9383

[sikwan]

That's the camera angle causing the difference. Dimensionally they're identical exterior-wise. Of course they have to be.

The only thing "visually" that I can see differently are the vertical ribs (forgot the right term for this)...
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9378&d=1219632673
...on th Q5 that protrude more from the surface...
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9379&d=1219632673
...than on the Q4, but this is only a manufacturing process imperfection (less material removed).

No one has posted or mentioned where the crack is actually occuring (or maybe I just missed it :idunno:), so either it's a change internally to the resonator or a material recipe change.

I didn't take any pictures of the interior of the resonator. There are perforations through the tube, within body portion, that is very similar to a muffler. The perforations are all in the same positions for Q4 and Q5.

[mobileoilchange]

Those parting lines are nothing, its only from the plastic injection mold (the die set). The parting lines DO NOT add strength. In the tool and die world they call those parting lines "casting flash" After the part leaves the mold their would of been a piece of scrap "casting flash" where you see the parting line. this scrap is then cut off and dispose of and sometimes recycled.
IM betting the only diference between the two are the grade of plastic material in which they are made from. the only way to tell for sure on plastic is to have a durometer test done.

[sikwan]

IM betting the only diference between the two are the grade of plastic material in which they are made from. the only way to tell for sure on plastic is to have a durometer test done.

Agreed and thanks for the info.

[KL2BE]

No one has posted or mentioned where the crack is actually occuring (or maybe I just missed it :idunno:), so either it's a change internally to the resonator or a material recipe change.



GREAT WRITE-UP...AS USUAL!!!!:clapping::cheers:

The leaking has been reported to be form the seam where the end is glued onto the body. (There was a picture posted here once that showed an attempted repair with a series of small screws; couldn't find it though).
I suspect the "fix" has been either a new plastic-weld formula or a larger purchase area inside to allow more glued surface...or both.
A good plastic shop (if there is one in your town) could provide the right weld-solvent for the type of plastic used and with some pieces of the same plastic-type, a leaking resonator could be fixed; I'd weld some pieces on the interior to add greater purchase area and etc.
(would need to have the right weld-solvant and do a good job to prevent a loose piece form entering the engine :eek:)
A Dodge tech told me that a leaking resonator will always show itself with a drop or two of oil around the seam. Don't know if that is true, but he ran is finger around the seam to rule out a leaking resonator when I went in with a limp-home problem (600 miles of "limp-home" on the Alaska Highway LAST WINTER :eek::rant::yell::thumbdown::censored: ; turned out to be an air filter clogged with dry blowing snow. The tech (in Whitehorse, Yukon Territory) said the snow-clogged filter problem showed up on all their Sprinter sales; they ended up designing an air snorkel modification).
I'm buying a new Q-5 this week before my next AK-Hwy venture in September. With 800 mile stretches of highway between Dealers, it's just too risky to not carry a spare. It just frosts me that MB doesnt provide them free:rant: I Love my Sprinter :thumbup:, but don't get me started about MB :bash: (I've gotten even by talking a least two friends into buying a Lexus rather than an MB:smirk:).

[rlent]

IM betting the only diference between the two are the grade of plastic material in which they are made from. the only way to tell for sure on plastic is to have a durometer test done.
And I'm betting the only difference is in the formulation of the glue or adhesive that are used to join the two pieces together ...... :D:

As I understand it, the failures have occurred at the joint between the main body and the top cap ....... hence the "glue theory" ...........

Opps ....... shoulda read the prior post b4 I pulled the trigger .......... :eek:

[sikwan]

As I understand it, the failures have occurred at the joint between the main body and the top cap ....... hence the "glue theory" ...........

:hmmm: Interesting.

Do you know if the breakage meant that it could not be glued (expoxied) back together again?

[mobileoilchange]

And I'm betting the only difference is in the formulation of the glue or adhesive that are used to join the two pieces together ...... :D:

As I understand it, the failures have occurred at the joint between the main body and the top cap ....... hence the "glue theory" ...........

Opps ....... shoulda read the prior post b4 I pulled the trigger .......... :eek:

i agree to this also

[KL2BE]

:hmmm: Interesting.

Do you know if the breakage meant that it could not be glued (expoxied) back together again?

As I understand it, the seam separates; not really a break. I'm guessing it could be repaired with the right plastic weld, I would not try epoxy. A solvent made for the specific plastic in question would melt the plastic and create a true weld there both sides are chemically and physically fussed. Epoxy would only adhere to the two surfaces; in doing boat repairs I have found Epoxy to not adhere well to other plastics the do not have an Epoxy resin-base.
I think you would first have to totally separate the cap from the body, clean away all oil residue, sand the mating surfaces and then use the appropriate solvent/weld. There are different welds for different plastics so getting the right solvent would be key.
A crude emergency repair might be possible using wire or hose clamp to physically hold the parts together and an epoxy putty such as "MarineTex" to seal the seam from the outside.
Wish I had one of the many failed parts to fool aroun with; I wander where the great Sprinter Resonator graveyard might be?:idunno:

[rlent]

What he said ...... :thumbup:

[sikwan]

Thanks KL2BE. :thumbup:

[KL2BE]

This was the screw-fix photo I was trying to find
http://fcrosby.com/public/turbo_resonator.jpg
It was attached to this "thread" on the Yahoo Forum
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/sprintervan/message/40390

[sprinterpard]

; turned out to be an air filter clogged with dry blowing snow. The tech (in Whitehorse, Yukon Territory) said the snow-clogged filter problem showed up on all their Sprinter sales; they ended up designing an air snorkel modification).

Do you have the name of the garage in Whitehorse? I am in edmonton, alberta, and I have just got a sprinter for my touring theatre company, and we go all over the place in the winter, so if blowing snow clogs the air filters, it sounds like a need one of these snorkels!

Cheers,
Sprinterpard

[KL2BE]

; turned out to be an air filter clogged with dry blowing snow. The tech (in Whitehorse, Yukon Territory) said the snow-clogged filter problem showed up on all their Sprinter sales; they ended up designing an air snorkel modification).

Do you have the name of the garage in Whitehorse? I am in edmonton, alberta, and I have just got a sprinter for my touring theatre company, and we go all over the place in the winter, so if blowing snow clogs the air filters, it sounds like a need one of these snorkels!

Cheers,
Sprinterpard

The Dealer is Metro Chrysler LTD. The web-site is http://www.yellowknifechrysler.com/
The service dept. is http://www.yellowknifechrysler.com/service.php
Don't know the tech's name, but if you simply ask how they have dealt with dry-blowing snow clogging the air filter, they will likely clue into the issue.
My recollection of what he said he did is sketchy. If you look at the set-up you will see the intake snorkel leads from the air-box to the inside of the fender where it goes into a cavity. On the outside of the cavity are "gills" just above the wheel-well on the front right. The Gills are where intake air enters the system and where dry blowing snow comes in (mostly, I think, from the clouds of snow kicked-up by passing trucks). Think he said he installed some sort of "baffle" in the fender cavity, but that does not look easy in the inspection I just did.
In the absence of instructions from the Dealer, I'd start by puling the snorkel out of the hole into the cavity and seeing if I could stuff in some furnace-filter material to act as a fist-line baffle (furnace filter material should not restrict the air flow).
Alternatively, you could leave the snorkle out of the hole into the fender-well so the air is drawn in from the enginge compartment on a winter-only basis.
If your Sprinter is equipped with ASSYST, the gauge on the filter-box will tell you when a clogg is developing (mine was not so equipped so I had not way of knowing it was a clogged filter reather than a split Resonator). If you do not have the gauge, you might consider buying a replacement air-box that is so equipped; it could possibly pay for itself in reduced air-cleaner replacement cost.
Good luck; fixing the air-intake has gone way-down my priority list since I am trying to avoid such driveing conditions in the future with better trip planning. I don't want to get into -40 degree weather again (Fahrenheit or Centigrade...it's the same at -40) as we did for several hours around Watson Lake, YT :eek:

[sprinterpard]

Thanks for the info!
How did you find the heater in minus 40?

Cheers,
Sprinterpard

[KL2BE]

Thanks for the info!
How did you find the heater in minus 40?

Cheers,
Sprinterpard
Cabin Heat.
The cabin heater worked fine; we were comfortable in a light fleece jacket :thumbup:. Cabin was maintained at about 65F (in the front seats; it was probably more like 50F at the back of the van). And, in a storage compartment slightly isolated from the interior, a bottle of Gin developed slush :eek:.
Note:All the RV conversion companies (ours is LTV) add insolation. I suspect an RV Sprinter is better insulated than a Passenger Van. On the other hand, don't Passenger vans have an auxiliary heat-exchanger in the rear?:idunno: If not the back passengers could get cold. Even if it has a rear heater, you may have to block air-flow over the radiator in sub-zero conditions in order to keep the water-jacket temperature in the 180F to 190F range.
Engine Temperature.
We had to keep running the auxiliary-diesel engine heater in order to keep the engine water jacket temperature above 150F :wtf:. And even with the booster heater on, the engine temp ran about 170F rather than the customary 190F :thinking:. If I were running in those conditions long (we only saw -40 for about 3 hours) I would stuff a blanket under the mesh bug-screen that attaches to the Grill so as to reduce the air-flow over the radiator.
Diesel.
Never had a gelling problem with the diesel; I assume the area stations were selling a 50/50 #1, #2 winter-blend and I added Power Service additive.
Starting.
Prince George, BC; Started fine at 0F.
Ft, Nelson, BC: Started fine at -20F.
Whitehorse, YT; Did not start at -20F. Needed a jump-start.
Gennallen, AK; Started fine at 0F.

[sprinterpard]

Hey, thanks for all the info. I don't think I have a rear heat exchanger - I've got a big AC unit up at the top and back of my Sprinter - it was imported from Texas first so cooling was more of a priority in its last job than heat. I talked to the Dodge dealer here about how to beef up the heating system and he said they tried ordering a rear heater from MB for a guy once and it was a nightmare, so they sent him to a company here in Edmonton called Polar Mobility, who hooked up some extra heaters in the rear for way less than it would have cost on the official route. With the big alternator I have it's probably best to use some electric heat in the winter, rather than stripping more heat out of the coolant for the cabin. Might cost me a couple mpg, but I'll have happier actors!

Cheers,
Sprinterpard

[rlent]

Pard,

Duuno what your budget is ........ but considering your location, you might want to check into an Espar AirTronic (or Webasto) diesel-fired heater. The AirTronic D2 that I have sips fuel (.08 gallons per hour at the highest setting)and it doesn't use a lot of juice (I've run it in excess of 24 hours on the starting battery only.) Run you around $1600 installed:

Espar - Air Heaters (http://espar.com/html/products/airheaters.html)

[AircooledJohn]

I also have concerns over my rear heat in my 2006 passenger, with no rear heat (it does have rear A/C). I have not been in a winter with it yet since I only got it at the beginning of July, but my research into adding rear heat was very frustrating. Most of the kits flat out suck. But after many hours I found my solution,

http://msrheaters.com/1hiout.html

looks like it's perfect. I'll put it in if/when I need it (I'm sure we'll need it here, it gets cold), and will put in my rear 12vDC and 110V A/C outlets at the same time, since I'll already be running power for rear passengers and the portable fridge behind the rearmost seats.

John

[rlent]

John,

One thing to keep in mind with these type of units is that they are dependent on a warm coolant flow for the heat source - that may not be a problem, depending on where you are and how cold it gets (or doesn't), and whether your intended use is primarily when driving down a highway (when the Sprinter's engine will generate enough heat to steal a little) .... or idling and stop-n-go driving (when it may not)

The OM647 is a pretty cold blooded engine - in my experience, in cold winter weather, the engine runs very cool when idling or in stop-n-go type situations - of course, if you have the heater booster, you can just fire that up and it will keep the coolant warm.

[AircooledJohn]

I have the Aux Engine heater so that shouldn't be an issue. But remember ANYTHING is better than nothing back there. If I needed the heat when not running (camping), I'd go Espar.

John

[Hit The Road Jack]

I didn't take any pictures of the interior of the resonator. There are perforations through the tube, within body portion, that is very similar to a muffler. The perforations are all in the same positions for Q4 and Q5.

These are inside shots of my leaking Q3 Turbo Resonator...My Q5 is on its way!

[Hit The Road Jack]

On top is a pic of the O-Ring-Turbo-side (insertion nipple) of the Q3 'Resonator'

[sikwan]

Jack...with the defective Q4, can you wiggle the halves to see if there's indeed an adhesive break?

Was wondering if you filled the seam with some type of RTV, would it fix the leak?

[Hit The Road Jack]

Jack...with the defective Q4, can you wiggle the halves to see if there's indeed an adhesive break?

Was wondering if you filled the seam with some type of RTV, would it fix the leak?

Hi Seek!

As stated in post #24...my second blown Turbo Resonator, installed under warrantee from my local Dodge dealership in early 2007 was a Q3.

Indeed I can see movement and also feel movement with a wiggle, if you like I can fill the 'Bad Apple' with water with intercooler side orifice blocked for the sure-fire test.

IMHO, trying to repair this purely designed seam would be a negative experience.

Please let me know your thoughts...Jack

[sikwan]

Indeed I can see movement and also feel movement with a wiggle, if you like I can fill the 'Bad Apple' with water with intercooler side orifice blocked for the sure-fire test.

That sounds a lot better, Jack. Thanks!

[Hit The Road Jack]

That sounds a lot better, Jack. Thanks!

I've just confirmed the 'Seam Failure Water Test' with-out even applying pressure!...the result was water violently pouring out from the seam.

Jack

[sikwan]

Wow! Interesting. Thanks again, Jack.

[Hit The Road Jack]

Wow! Interesting. Thanks again, Jack.

You're very welcome Seek!

My Q5 arrived this morning via Fed-X...I will now install it, then report on my findings...Jack

[Hit The Road Jack]

Q5 installed in 20 minutes!...the hardest part is securing the 2 torx bolts onto the Resonator mounting arm...:yell:

Prior to the install I contemplated giving the 'Water Test' to the new resonator, I blew through (with my lips acting as a gasket) the turbo end while sealing off the intercooler end instead...no air escaped...:thumbup:...How long this resonator will last?...I have no clue...:idunno:

FWIW, the ECU light remained on after the successful install & test drive...:cry:

[Hit The Road Jack]

After approximately 150 miles of travel the ECU light shut off on its own...:rad:

[miki]

Thanks for this awesome forum! I bought a spare resonator just in case as we were traveling to Mexico and I was worried about parts availability there so I got it as a backup. The resonator didn't trouble us then but later when we were in Nevada and 300 miles from the nearest Sprinter dealer. Fixed in about 30-45 minutes. btw, those bolts for it are external Torx bolts. I recommend that if you don't have a short 1/4" open ended wrench then you keep one for this job. I'll never leave home without a wrench and an extra turbo resonator.

[maxextz]

great thread seek as always:thumbup:,some questions for you ,how did you know the Turbo Resonator was faulty? what were the symptons?

[sikwan]

great thread seek as always:thumbup:,some questions for you ,how did you know the Turbo Resonator was faulty? what were the symptons?

The Q4 was reportedly faulty and I learned about it here in the forum. I checked mine and it was a Q4. It never failed on me, but I didn't want to take any chances on the road while traveling so I changed it to the new Q5.

As I read from others, the van will go into limp mode and will generate a check engine light (p-code). I wonder if a duct tape job around the seam would do the job on temporarily avoiding the limp mode occurrence.

[maxextz]

thanks for the reply seek, i was wondering sometimes well i think all the time when i accelerate i hear a sound like air or exhaust gases escaping from the underside of my van, it sounds like if you put your hand over the tail pipe to stop the exhaust:thinking:
any ideas?
max.....

[Aqua Puttana]

Max,
I thought you guys on the other side of the pond didn't have turbo resonators?? Even if you don't I suppose you could still have a leaking hose or charge air cooler. Doktor A mentioned somewhere that leaks in the turbo system can cause extra wear and premature failure of the turbo because it works balls all to make up for the leaking air. It may be worth taking the time to verify if there is a problem. Hope this does some good. vic

[maxextz]

thanks vic, maybe Doktor A will see this and maybe have an answer.

[rimjaine]

After approximately 150 miles of travel the ECU light shut off on its own...:rad:

Howdy,
Thanks for the info, I've driven mine about 75 miles since resealing the resonator seam with JB Weld. So far I still have the check engine light on, with good power indicating that the seal is holding the boost pressure. Guess I should carry the JB Weld in the van in case the seam lets go again.
Seems like they could have found a better sealing glue for the resonator after 5 design changes,
maybe the design changes are for something else.
Later, Jim

[312 diesel (closed)]

Does this part actually do anything useful? Can it not just be replaced with a piece of silicone turbo hose and eliminate a potential source of failure?

[KL2BE]

Does this part actually do anything useful? Can it not just be replaced with a piece of silicone turbo hose and eliminate a potential source of failure?

You may very well get another opinion (imagine different opinions of the same Forum) :idunno: , but I have read just about all the postings on all the Forums and I have conclude that the Turbo Resonator does nothing useful. Indeed the Riordan resonator replacement is merely an aluminum tube machined to fit in place of the OEM deice. A piece of the right kind of hose would no doubt work about as well, however, the Riordan aluminum-tube replacement is nifty because it has a support bracket built in at exactly the right place. Trouble is, it cost around $100 :eek: .
The device was seemingly intended to eliminate Turbo whine although many of those who have replaced theirs with the straight through aluminum tube have reported little or no detectable difference in cabin sound (postings vary a bit on this but many, if not most, have not noticed any objectionable noise).
Some have suggested a theory that the TR affects intake temperature and that by-passing it could cause a problem :hmmm: .
I don't buy that :2cents: ; there is an inter-cooler that well handles the intake air temp and the I-5 engine did not even have a TR before '04 :popcorn: .
BTW, why don't you get a new Q-5 TR from the Dealer for free and get a littel revenge on DC :smirk: ?
I bought a new Q-5 unit from a local Dealer for $55. After removing the Q-4 from my van I cleaned it up and wiped it with vinyl preservative until it looked like new. I returned it the next day for a full refund. I simply handed them (1) the Q-4 unit, (2) my receipt and (3) a copy of the Daimler-Chrysler (DC) internal "recall" of Q-4 TRs that I found and copied from this Forum. http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13401&postcount=16
The internal recall notice directs parts managers to return all Q-4 and earlier TRs to the "facing depot (PDC)" for a refund.
Carefully choosing my words so as not to misrepresent anything I said: "I'd like a refund on this Q-4 Turbo Resonator. As I am sure your Service Department will tell you, they have a high failure rate. I got a copy of this internal recall notice off the Internet (handing him at this point a copy of the DC Notice on which I had highlighted in YELLOW the provisions that read "Please return all parts showing Q-4 or lower...." . I'm sure you can verify this June 29, 2007 memo on your computer." The counter person went to his computer for about 3 minutes and then said "Your right, these are supposed to be sent back, take this receipt to the cashier for your credit". :cheers:
"You'll send this back and get credited?" I asked, not wanting to put him in a bind. "Yes", he replied. :thumbup:
Now, why doesn't the Dealer just give you a new Q-5 across the counter and be done with it? :yell: I guess they just don't respect their customers; it's why Chrysler is in Banckrupsty and MB is losing ground to Toyota and Honda in their long cultivated Luxury-Car market in North America. :tongue:.
The Internet may revolutionize consumer rights since we can now talk to each other and expose Manufacturer's abuses. :thumbup:

[BULBASOR]

The pressure in the resonator is too high for duct tape or any other tape to hold (25 to 35 PSI and higher).

The reason I would not re-glue or JB weld a resonator is because there is a chance that pieces of the JB weld or glue could get into the system when you back off the gas and I asbolutly would avoid tiny metal parts like screws being inserted anywhere near a turbo intake.

I talked to Claudio the Sprinter tech about this years ago and he said carry a spare resonator OR use a straight alum pipe - (with no parts that can come off like the Riordon Eliminator). I had Claudio inspect the Riorden Eliminator carfully before he gave it his approval to be used on BULBASOR.

I am right now running the Q5 because I have just been too lazy to put the straight pipe back on after Claudio replaced my Q4. It ain't broke, so I guess I'll just leave it onthere for now. :snore:

[BaywoodBill]

As KL2BE says, "you may get a different opinion."

The factory resonator performs at least two functions: 1. it acts as a plenum to smooth out possible pulsations in the airflow from the turbo and 2. it's a muffler.

We've had the aluminum replacement for about 2 years. We think sometimes to re-install the resonator (the Q4 that replaced the one that failed) but we don't.

I've wondered if a high-temp duct tape wrap would help a plastic resonator.

I believe a silicone hose would not stay in place.

[BULBASOR]

I am content with the Q% also at this point - but I have the riorden eliminator on board for backup. My MPG has been very very good and getting better on each trip - I kinda hate to do anything that's gonna upset the apple cart. (550 miles on a half tank).

I need to take another long trip to see if I can break the 700 mile record on a tank.

[rimjaine]

The pressure in the resonator is too high for duct tape or any other tape to hold (25 to 35 PSI and higher).

The reason I would not re-glue or JB weld a resonator is because there is a chance that pieces of the JB weld or glue could get into the system when you back off the gas and I asbolutly would avoid tiny metal parts like screws being inserted anywhere near a turbo intake.

I talked to Claudio the Sprinter tech about this years ago and he said carry a spare resonator OR use a straight alum pipe - (with no parts that can come off like the Riordon Eliminator). I had Claudio inspect the Riorden Eliminator carfully before he gave it his approval to be used on BULBASOR.

I am right now running the Q5 because I have just been too lazy to put the straight pipe back on after Claudio replaced my Q4. It ain't broke, so I guess I'll just leave it onthere for now. :snore:

Howdy,
I put all my JB Weld on the outside & more or less just used it to plug or seal the seam all the way around. In other words filled the gap al the way around.
25 or 35 psi doesn't sound right for turbo boost pressure, I read elsewhere that turbo boost is equivalent to 20 inches, I assume that to be above atmospheric, my calculations for an added 20 inches = about 0.72 psi. increase. I'm not an expert on turbo's so very well could be mistaken in my belief.
Later, Jim

[TimJuhl]

1 atmosphere = 14.7 psi = 29.92 inches Hg = 760 mm Hg and so on. 20 inches would be 9.8 psi - I'm no turbo expert either but since 9.8 is below atmospheric pressure I suspect it is figured as added boost over ambient pressure.

I suspect if the internal pressures were really high they wouldn't make the turbo resonator out of plastic. Going with what Bulbasor said, I suspect that the higher the average power you are demanding from the engine the more likelihood of weakening the seal within the resonator.

Tim

[BULBASOR]

Yeah guys, I really do not know what the type of measurment is on the MAP all i know is that the value is important and I think if you are talking pressure I just assumed PSI but I really don't know because it does not say on the scan guage what MAP is except Manifold Air Pressure.

That could mean anything: I could be like the Richter scale - gets less and less or more and more based on values, who knows? But, if it's an absolute value - then it's DOUBLEING itself every three seconds that your accelerating and I don't know if the starting point is one atmospher or .5 PSI but if it DOUBLES it's getting into some real pressure real fast. I really don't think we are talking about any kind of extreamly dangerous or powerful pressures here because the rubber hose connection to the resonator is after all only a big radiator hose!

How much pressure can a radiator hose take? Quite a lot. Boiling water reaches what PSI??? You can just figure. All I'm saying is that the "radiator" hose, and turbo and Manifold are all very strong compared to the plastic resonator - so it's an easy guess that the resonator was DESIGNED as the 'weak link' in the entire system!

You don't need an engineering degree to figure that out.

The real questions is: Why? and are we defeating another issue by eliminating it?

[312 diesel (closed)]

I simply don't believe the turbo resonator is designed to blow apart. Boost control is easily achieved with an internal or external waste gate. It's not done with a piece of tube that pops apart. I've never measured the boost on a Sprinter, but I'd think it's in the order of 20psi over atmospheric.


Yeah guys, I really do not know what the type of measurment is on the MAP all i know is that the value is important and I think if you are talking pressure I just assumed PSI but I really don't know because it does not say on the scan guage what MAP is except Manifold Air Pressure.

That could mean anything: I could be like the Richter scale - gets less and less or more and more based on values, who knows? But, if it's an absolute value - then it's DOUBLEING itself every three seconds that your accelerating and I don't know if the starting point is one atmospher or .5 PSI but if it DOUBLES it's getting into some real pressure real fast. I really don't think we are talking about any kind of extreamly dangerous or powerful pressures here because the rubber hose connection to the resonator is after all only a big radiator hose!

How much pressure can a radiator hose take? Quite a lot. Boiling water reaches what PSI??? You can just figure. All I'm saying is that the "radiator" hose, and turbo and Manifold are all very strong compared to the plastic resonator - so it's an easy guess that the resonator was DESIGNED as the 'weak link' in the entire system!

You don't need an engineering degree to figure that out.

The real questions is: Why? and are we defeating another issue by eliminating it?

[BULBASOR]

That's what makes the whole thing so disturbing for so many people in the US. (Why is it there?)

They don't have them on the Austrailian Sprinters, and your 312 does not have one, right?

So why bother?

[312 diesel (closed)]

That's what makes the whole thing so disturbing for so many people in the US. (Why is it there?)

They don't have them on the Austrailian Sprinters, and your 312 does not have one, right?

So why bother?

Nope, the 312 doesn't have one. Looks to me like it's intended as a silencer. Perhaps it is something it was felt was necessary to refine the product? In Europe the Sprinter is hardly ever used as a family vehicle. It is mostly used commercially, or you see them converted into full blown campers or buses. Very rarely would you see a family that owns a panel van with seats privately.

There again rarely do you see one that is automatic here, the odd welfare bus perhaps, but the vast majority are manuals. Wonder if it is related to that?

[BULBASOR]

And what about the speed?? The American Sprinter can't go over 84 miles per hour - what's up with that?

Why are these modifications on the American Sprinter?

Is it because all the people over 'there' are commercial drivers and they are using manual tranny?

Some people think that detroit auto executives purposly put in break and wear and tear items into american cars just to force owners back to the dealers for repairs.

In America we don't trust auto executives - we think they are building cars designed to wear out after 100K miles on purpose so your required to buy another one. I notice that all the Japanese cars are like that now too. Nissan and lexus cars are a pile after 100K miles.

[rimjaine]

1 atmosphere = 14.7 psi = 29.92 inches Hg = 760 mm Hg and so on. 20 inches would be 9.8 psi - I'm no turbo expert either but since 9.8 is below atmospheric pressure I suspect it is figured as added boost over ambient pressure.

I suspect if the internal pressures were really high they wouldn't make the turbo resonator out of plastic. Going with what Bulbasor said, I suspect that the higher the average power you are demanding from the engine the more likelihood of weakening the seal within the resonator.

Tim
Howdy Tim,
Thanks for the correction, I used water weight instead of mercury weight, so .72 x 13 = 9.36 psi, I didn't look up the exact specific gravity of mercury, so thats the difference in our calculations.
Jim

[BaywoodBill]

The Manifold Air Pressure is usuallly measured (in the non-metric countries) by psi. The scanuage reports psi.

I believe there is not a waste gate in this Sprinter plumbing. Instead, the turbo charger has variable vanes so the boost can be kept at 20 psi or below (though I've seen the boost momentarily exceed 20 psi).

Regardless of whether the Sprinters have resonators in other market, they have them in the US and the purpose of the resonator is two-fold: to muffle the sound and to smooth the air flow.

[BULBASOR]

people in the US use vans in very curious ways. Often loaded up very heavy and converted to be a motorhome. This is not uncommon in other countries but I think most other countries have a decidedly more refined view of the "van/motorhome" concept as more of a lesson in efficency and resoursefulness as illistrated in the Westfailia and old conversions of Volkswagon bus fame.

This ideal of efficiency and economy was never part of the "American" way to do a 'VAN'.

American Vans were big, gas guzzling TRUCKS with shag carpet and couches and beds with mirrored cielings and all kinds or really stupid stuff that you STILL see today carried over into the multi million dollar CLASS A coach works of Marathon and others (These are strictly "American" phenomenons bred from movie stars and spoiled athletes that really had no idea what it means to live "off the grid" in a van).

In other countries they have large motor homes but they are called "touring couches". The whole thing smacks of luxury and aristocracy on one side of the pond, and wastefull crassness and urbaneness on the other side.

Out there somewhere are the "true believers"

They drive SPRINTERS.


I think the idiots at Chrysler were not using thier brain when they told the Germans "hey! You gotta stop all this turbo whine here and understand that Americans drive with the foot on the floor all the way until they get to where they are going!"

I assume the "Turbo Resonator" was just the German engineers way of dealing with the requirements of the Chrysler executives to "Americanize" the German truck called the 'SPRINTER'.

[kalewatkins]

Ok, so I'm confused...
Which year T1N's have resonator?
Which resonator is bad?
Kale

[Zman]

Has anyone tried fiber-glassing the outside of resonator before it failed. Would this strengthen the joint and keep it from failing? I have an 04 and still on the original resonator.

[sikwan]

Ok, so I'm confused...
Which year T1N's have resonator?
Which resonator is bad?

2004-2006 have resonators. Q5 is the latest. I had a Q4 for a long time and it never failed on me. I have a Q5 installed and a Q4 as a spare.

Has anyone tried fiber-glassing the outside of resonator before it failed. Would this strengthen the joint and keep it from failing? I have an 04 and still on the original resonator.

I have not heard of anyone doing it.

[SewerRatz]

2004-2006 have resonators. Q5 is the latest. I had a Q4 for a long time and it never failed on me. I have a Q5 installed and a Q4 as a spare.



I have not heard of anyone doing it.

Hi there Sikwan, long time no chat.

I changed my Q4 back in 2008 to the Q5 and been trouble free till today. The Q5 just blew apart at its seam. Was wondering if anyone else has had any issues with the Q5 resonator. Also if anyone has a link to the alternate replacement made out of aluminum.

Thanks guys.

[cahaak]

The Dorman resonator that you can get on Amazon or Rock auto does not have a visible seam at the failure point. It is also only $30.

Chris

[Thanasis]

The Dorman resonator that you can get on Amazon or Rock auto does not have a visible seam at the failure point. It is also only $30.

Chris

The photo on Amazon shows a resonator with the seam. The one delivered must be different, yes?
T

[GaryJ]

The photo on Amazon shows a resonator with the seam. The one delivered must be different, yes?
T

It has a seam, but there have been no reported failures yet including use in motorhomes over 10,000 lbs.
Gary

[cahaak]

It probably does have a seam, but the plastic joining on the one that I received all but made it invisible to me. It appears as though the plastic weld to join the pieces together has been greatly improved on the unit and given that the failures were occuring here, I think that much greater longevity will result. For $30 and free shipping, it was hard for me to go wrong here.

Chris

[hulagun]

It probably does have a seam, but the plastic joining on the one that I received all but made it invisible to me. It appears as though the plastic weld to join the pieces together has been greatly improved on the unit and given that the failures were occuring here, I think that much greater longevity will result. For $30 and free shipping, it was hard for me to go wrong here.

Chris

+1 :thumbup:

Have not yet heard of a Dorman one failing, and there's a recession...

[SewerRatz]

It probably does have a seam, but the plastic joining on the one that I received all but made it invisible to me. It appears as though the plastic weld to join the pieces together has been greatly improved on the unit and given that the failures were occuring here, I think that much greater longevity will result. For $30 and free shipping, it was hard for me to go wrong here.

Chris

Well the Q5 units where said to be a much better joining of the seams, but as I noted it has blown apart on me. I feel the Turbo Resonator Eliminator is the way to go.

[SewerRatz]

Ok a quick update.

The new turbo resonator elimnator came today. As I was taking off the intercooler hose the turbo resonator came free from the turbo with out me undoing the two bolts that hold it in place. What seemed to happen is the stealership that changed out my altnernator last week snapped the arm off the resonator. So the Turbo resonator blew out of the turbo, and seemed to loose its o-ring.

So now I have the turbo resonator elimnator that does not come with a new o-ring (their instructions inform you to reuse the one from the resonator), and a broken turbo resonator with out an o-ring as well. You all woundn't happen to have the part # for a new o-ring?

[sailquik]

Ron, Are you sure the O'ring didn't come off and fall down into the lower hose?
Did you check up inside the damaged plastic resonator?
Unusual that the shop would put it back together without the o'ring.
R

[SewerRatz]

Ron, Are you sure the O'ring didn't come off and fall down into the lower hose?
Did you check up inside the damaged plastic resonator?
Unusual that the shop would put it back together without the o'ring.
R

I find it unusual that they broke the arm off the old one and did not inform me. As I was removing the intercooler hose I watched the resonator pull right out of the the turbo lacking its o-ring. I did look inside nothing. But it is a straight flow through, I wonder if the oring did get pushed into the the unit (doubt it) it might be caught in the intercooler.

[mendonsy]

According to the '06 parts list the O ring part number should be 05139047AA

[sailquik]

Looks like the price for the 5139047AA (be sure to leave off the leading "0") is $14.00
(online price at several MOPAR parts operations with websites).
Just Google "5139047AA" and order one.
MSRP is $18.70 at the dealerships.
Hope this helps,
Roger

[hulagun]

$14 for an o-ring? :crazy:

A new turbo resonator ($30-$50) comes with a new seal.

For $115 or whatever they cost, you'd expect the "eliminator" to include the seal! :lol:

[mendonsy]

$14 for an o-ring? :crazy:

Unfortunately that is about normal for dealer parts prices.
If you knew the exact dimensions you could probably buy a package of 20 of them from McMaster-Carr for the same price.
:2cents:

[hulagun]

Unfortunately that is about normal for dealer parts prices.
If you knew the exact dimensions you could probably buy a package of 20 of them from McMaster-Carr for the same price.
:2cents:

:shhh: Hush now - was just gonna start offering them here at $4 each... :laughing:

[SewerRatz]

Well, got the new o-ring, and the Turbo Resonator Eliminator installed. My Sprinter is purring once again. Just FYI the Q5 is still solid around the seams, the trouble I happened to have is a Stealership grease monkey did not unbolt the turbo resonator from the alternator bracket and snapped the arm off. Which i did not find out till I started taking it all apart to install the Turbo Resonator Eliminator.

I do feel more at peace of mind knowing I no longer have a hunk of plastic can fail anytime though.

[mendonsy]

Just making a note here for myself as much as anyone else.

I just got my new Dorman turbo resonator out of the box. The O ring measurements are 1.75" ID x 2.125" OD X .187" thick. The AS568A dash number for that O ring should be -327. The good ones (Viton, hi temp) are McMaster-Carr part # 9464K49, $11.49 for ten of them.
:professor:

[autostaretx]

Well, i just/finally did mine... i had thought that my vintage (built in July 2005) came with the Q5, but the oily-from-leaking part that came out from the depths is/was a Q4.
I chose to install the Dorman (about $32 from Amazon, it made a simultaneous book purchase have free shipping), to avoid wifely complains about additional noise.

The install was "simple", if tedious. The hint about a 1/4 inch open-end wrench to handle the bolts was good... but a 12-point combination wrench was better (and a 6-point 1/4" socket fitted the lower bolt very nicely).
The three hardest parts were:
(a) pulling the old resonator out of the turbo (muscle move with right forearm being eaten by heatshield)
(b) pushing the new resonator into the turbo (getting it in far enough to seat the bolts, which seated it further. See (a) re eaten)
(c) getting the :yell: two bolts to catch their threads into the captive nuts. That took the longest time....

It's really nice having a vehicle i can simply slide under on a sheet of cardboard without having to jack it up...
Time to do the work: slightly below an hour (includes setting up and picking up... plus 15 minutes of arm-scrubbing afterwards)

I should'a taken a picture of the Dorman part... it simply does not have a seam where the OEM part splits.
--dick

[sikwan]

I should'a taken a picture of the Dorman part... it simply does not have a seam where the OEM part splits.
--dick

Did you happen to notice if another seam replaced the one that is so prevalent to failure?

I know the original one came in two halves. Did someone, maybe Dorman, figured out a way to make it completely seamless?

[mendonsy]

Here's a picture of my Dorman. It still has the seam, but less noticeable than on the factory part.

[cahaak]

Mine also did not have a visible seam. I'm sure it is still a two part unit, but the plastic welding is much better as the seam is essentially invisible which hopefully translates into much stronger. Right now, mine is a spare as the one I have on my van (a Q5 unit that replaced the failed original) is still hanging in there.

Chris