No Block Heaters for the V6

[hkpierce]

From the YahooSprinterVan site http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/sprintervan/message/42984 indicates that the aluminum V6 block has no frost plugs, thus no way to install a block heater. That leaves only oil pan and tank heaters as options for these engines at the moment.

[Sprinter]

I don't think we gonna need it. The coldest I've seen so far was 3 deg F one night in northern Wisconsin but van starts just like in the summer. Always right away, no questions asked. This engine is amazing and impress me every time, it's the rest of the Sprinter I am concerned with

[jmgasior]

what are you concerned about? plz share.

[Sprinter]

what are you concerned about? plz share.


- DPF, I wish it wasn't there
- this is commercial vehicle that should go well over 300k miles and cost $30k+ but when I loose bearing at 40k, warranty does not cover
- RPM's way too high for a diesel, 4.10 axle does not belong there! and is loud too
- mileage... connects with above
- overall assembly quality (who does that?) look at uneven spaces on lamps and hood, 1/4 inch difference left to right
- no option for manual transmission
- terrible service, lack of dealers knowledge, expensive filters

I think that's it, for now

[jdcaples]

- DPF, I wish it wasn't there
- this is commercial vehicle that should go well over 300k miles and cost $30k+ but when I loose bearing at 40k, warranty does not cover
- RPM's way too high for a diesel, 4.10 axle does not belong there! and is loud too
- mileage... connects with above
- overall assembly quality (who does that?) look at uneven spaces on lamps and hood, 1/4 inch difference left to right
- no option for manual transmission
- terrible service, lack of dealers knowledge, expensive filters

I think that's it, for now


For what it's worth, North American appears to have learned some lessons from the 2007 intro of NCV3.

I built a hypothetical 2008 Sprinter using the dodge.com website.

I noticed two things while playing around with that web application:

1) the 3.92 rear axle ratio is standard and 4.1x is optional (photographic evidence suggests the "4.10" is actually 4.18).

2) the radio "with telephone connection," now requires - according to the website - cell phone wiring prep.

-Jon

[sikwan]

From the YahooSprinterVan site http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/sprintervan/message/42984 indicates that the aluminum V6 block has no frost plugs, thus no way to install a block heater. That leaves only oil pan and tank heaters as options for these engines at the moment.

I must have missed it or I can't read, but there's no mention in the discussion that there's no way to mount a block heater. :idunno:

There's a coolant plug bolt though on the part lists from Berry Dodge for both the diesel and the petrol. Whether this can be used is the question.

[jdcaples]

I know that a block heater made starting my 1993 6.2 diesel a bit easier on extremely cold mornings and operating temperature was reached much faster and fuel had some heat to help it go boom. Most chilly evenings before chilly mornings, I wouldn't bother with the block heater. My glow plug light would light up intermittently after turning over the engine and after idle was achieved. The engine would stumble a bit while the glow plug intdicator was lit, but it would all even out.

My understanding of the OM642's engine is as follows (and someone correct me if I'm wrong)

The glow plugs are capable of reaching 2000 degrees in a second or less (I can't remember where I read it, but it might have been the MB GL320 CDI service manual or something like that).

The Sprinter's ECU reads coolant temperature - or oil temperature if the coolant temperature's not saying anything - and based on those temp readings, continues to energize the glow plugs after the initial start cycle.

The Sprinter's dash board indicator does not inform the driver of this clandestine, thermal activity.

Now, assuming I'm right about all that, what problem would a block heater solve?

Fewer minutes until warm air blows into the cabin from engine coolant?

-Jon

[jdcaples]

I'm serious. What problem does a block heater solve?

No one wants to help me get smarter?

[sikwan]

The Sprinter's ECU reads coolant temperature - or oil temperature if the coolant temperature's not saying anything - and based on those temp readings, continues to energize the glow plugs after the initial start cycle.


Jon, even if the glow plugs continue to be energized, I think the oil (even synthetic) is still harder to flow. Also, I would expect more fuel is needed to raise the engine's operating temp and its smog items to run where it's most efficient.

Having a block heater in the northern climates would most likely provide a savings on diesel fuel and create less stress on the battery, but pass the costs onto your own or someone else's utility bill.

[Altered Sprinter]

Clarifying from Mercedes-Benz.
Final axle ratio
V6 WAS ONLY SUPPOSED TO BE 3.923 3.5 TO 3.8 t
DUAL CAB 3500 WAS SUPPOSED TO BE 4.182 3.5 TO 4.1 OPTIONED TO 4.4 t
DUAL CAB 5500 WAS SUPPOSED TO BE 4.364 4.5 TO 5.1 t OPTIONED TO 5.5 t
SOME BRIGHT SPARK, PLACED EVERY ONE OF THE US SPRINTERS IN THE FOUR -INLINE SECTION THAT WAS WITH MANUAL TRANS... SOMEHOW THE AUTO GOT THE MIX UP .
It could explain the poor MPG with the cab chassis models:idunno: After-all they quote the V6 with the 315 4-inline specs! How could any one in a top end responsible postion get it so wrong????'Dunkoofs'
Richard

[jdcaples]

Jon, even if the glow plugs continue to be energized, I think the oil (even synthetic) is still harder to flow. Also, I would expect more fuel is needed to raise the engine's operating temp and its smog items to run where it's most efficient.

Having a block heater in the northern climates would most likely provide a savings on diesel fuel and create less stress on the battery, but pass the costs onto your own or someone else's utility bill.


Thanks, Seek...

I'm all for wear and pollution reduction.

We're never going to get an MB engineer to explain why NCV3 3L v6 engines don't come with a block heater.

There seems to be a block heater option for the Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland CRD. I thought it was the same engine, but I can't find a Jeep CRD block heater part number for it. Maybe there's one for the GL320 CDI?


-Jon

[caruana_interiors]

In both of our 2007s we have not had a problem starting during cold weather. For most of November and the first half of December the overnight low was around -28 Celsius (-18F) and the daytime high rarely went over -18 (0F). We had to run the booster almost continuously to maintain hot air coming from the vents (even on long hauls), but absolutely no problems starting. We generally let them idle for about 10 minutes before heading out.

[Eki]

Hi

Here in Scandinavia we mount "block heater" to coolant hoses, see link http://www.defa.com/doc/400/458.pdf

Eki

[OrioN]

Even if the coolant heater is an inline hose type it's still a block heater...

On that note, my stealer called, he wants to know if i require a 'block heater' since i will take delivery shortly.
I said 'what make/model are you offering?' and 'what $$$?'.
He replied "TEMRO" and "$300".

Can anyone tell me more about "TEMRO"? I went to theur website and it' 'bland' on info. Anyone have issues starting these vans in cold?

[blakej59]

Dodge dealer in Minneapolis told me they had a bunch of guys who couldn't get their sprinters started this winter when it got way below zero and the dealer had no plug-in heater options for people yet. I didn't use the sprinter on any of those days so I can't personally speak of any problems. It was way cold a number of times this past winter and it apparently showed there is some limits to the diesel sprinter. My diesel VW had some hard days as well but it always eventually fired up.

[jdcaples]

I found this when I saw Aztek's posting here (http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=27579&postcount=20) in the "Design Lab" thread.

I found this content on my 2007 North American Sprinter Service Manual. Is this information thoughtlessly carried forward to NCV3 info from service manual content of T1N (prior) years? I haven't looked recently for a part number as it may apply to any OM642-class 3.0 L V6 diesel (the current diesel jeep crd or the MB cdi models.... maybe it's worth another look now that a few months have past and - of course - it's summer :)

-Jon

7977

7978

[shanemac]

I'm going to chance this winter with no block heater in my 07 sprinter the stealer gave me a quote of 41.61 for the part and 2.5 hours to install, block heater part number is 82300778 if that means anything. From what i gather i can run the auxiliary heater for a while before starting engine to get up to temp faster and help the oil move. My mornings can get pretty cold -35c, with my old van with 10w30 oil if block heater was not plugged in it would barley crank over i run a 5w or sometimes even a 0w unit cranked much easier. Who knows maybe by the middle of winter I'll have to make that trip to dealer for one.

I'm not sure if i should go to a lighter weight of oil and seeing my first oil change is not for about 3 months I'll be using what came in it from dealer. Dealer is 4 hours away.

[jasonec500]

That appears to be a part# for a battery blanket. :idunno: Just goes to show the dealer has no clue what they're talking about! :crazy:

[shanemac]

I figured that seemed kinda cheap for a block heater makes sense now, this is one of the larger dodge dealerships in western Canada too doesn't surprise me.

[jdcaples]

I'm not sure if i should go to a lighter weight of oil and seeing my first oil change is not for about 3 months I'll be using what came in it from dealer. Dealer is 4 hours away.

Try to keep the original oil in there. It's special, break-in oil, designed to assure proper break-in. 16,000 km is the recommended duty cycle for the factory, original oil.

-Jon

[shanemac]

Good to know thanks Jon.

[speedyb]

NO block heater......... from canada and drove all over NA last winter had no problem what so ever in starting the van.....heater booster worked well and heated up the air from the heater in the cab in a few mins never once did the glow plugs stay on for more than a min but now I have noticed they come on and off while even driving on the highway at different speeds and weather conditions. No codes showing up wondering if they need to be replaced? If so you would think the van would be hard to start and that is just not the case. Anyone will same problem. I should also say the plug light stays on for only mins and sometimes go off when I give the van a little more throttle strange I think. First time owning a diesle so would appreicate any help

[jdcaples]

Normal behavior is: The glow plug light comes on for a few seconds and then goes out with the key in position 3 (the notch just before turning the starter motor).

An illuminated glow plug indicator on the dashboard probably means that the glow plugs are lit, but the glow plugs cycle on and off w/o lighting up the glow plug indicator lamp after starting.

I read something either in the Sprinter service manual or some other OM642 information source that basically said the plugs fire after the engine's running to smooth out the combustion process.

If I were seeing the glow plug lamp light up under other conditions, I'd make a doctor appointment for it.

-Jon