Changing Glow Plugs

[kappy5003]

ike a lot of other sprinter owners my glow plug light comes back on after starting and stays on.

A recent diagnosis revealed a number of codes relevant to CR common rail
P1481-001 Glow plug failure- Cylinder 1
P1481-004 Glow plug failure- Cylinder 3
P1482-004 Glow output stage- Excess current

All current and stored

So after some stalling due to fear of snapping off in the head and with some tips from Eric I did one last night and the the other 4 I dud this afternoon.

So while I engine was still warm armed with a piece of wire about 10 inches long ( from an old coat hanger) with a small hook at one end I started by using the wire hook to lift off the glow plug connector. Man there is not a lot of room in here wish I had little lady hands.

With a little practise I hand the connectors off quicker than I expected.

Now with my Glow plugs spanner courtesy of Chris Case UK I started to remove each glowplug, I admit I was a little nervous.

Each plug showed a little resistance but came out easily. Not sure of firing order so I'll number them from the front. I noticed that the connector off No 4 was really loose may not have been connected.

All plugs removed and photographed, interesting the appearance of each plug(can't upload pics for some reason??)

Prior to intserting new plugs a little anti seize placed on thread tightened and torqued down.

Connectors replaced on plugs.

I have to say the hardest part of this exercise was replacing the connector on the glow plugs not a lot of room to move in there.

Now all clear turn on key, glow plug light goes out, start engine, bugger glow plug light comes on again.:yell:

Maybe faulty relay. Time will tell.

Cheers
Kappy

[talkinghorse43]

You probably need a new relay, or need to rebuild yours. Search using the search tool on the blue bar above. Mucho info here about that.

[kappy5003]

Last night I was unable to upload pics for some reason,now working again.

This pic31084shows all old glow plugs from 1 to 5 that is front to rear, couldn't find firing order.

Each plug has heavy sooting on tip and is vastly different along stem.I welcome any comments or diagnosis regarding condition.

In February I had a scan done by MB dealer and I struggle to understand the meaning, even the mechanic:hmmm: at the time wasn't really able to explain adequately.
31085
31086
31087
Maybe some guru's out there will be able to understand and shed some light on what these scans mean????

Cheers
Kappy

[kappy5003]

Last night I was unable to upload pics for some reason,now working again.

This pic31084shows all old glow plugs from 1 to 5 that is front to rear, couldn't find firing order.

Each plug has heavy sooting on tip and is vastly different along stem.I welcome any comments or diagnosis regarding condition.

In February I had a scan done by MB dealer and I struggle to understand the meaning, even the mechanic:hmmm: at the time wasn't really able to explain adequately.
31085
31086
31087
Maybe some guru's out there will be able to understand and shed some light on what these scans mean????

Cheers
Kappy

Sorry uploaded wrong pic,:hmmm: this is correct one31089

Cheers
Kappy

[Aqua Puttana]

When I removed my glow plugs from my 210,000+ mile 2004 2.7 L NAFTA diesel the tips had soot on them and looked similar to yours FWIW. I don't know if they were the original or not.

So what were Eric's glow plug removal tips? I don't think I saw where you outlined them. vic

[kappy5003]

When I removed my glow plugs from my 210,000+ mile 2004 2.7 L NAFTA diesel the tips had soot on them and looked similar to yours FWIW. I don't know if they were the original or not.

So what were Eric's glow plug removal tips? I don't think I saw where you outlined them. vic

VIC
My sprinter has 172,000+Kms 2005 2.7 Auto, I don't whether glowplugs are original or not, although I'm convinced N0 4 is odd man out, no corrosion on stem, this was the one I feel the connector was not connected as it pulled off plug too easy.

Here is link to Eric's tip
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=127368&postcount=42

Cheers
Kappy

[brassarl]

First file shows only two glow plugs.... thanks for photos

[Altered Sprinter]

Last night I was unable to upload pics for some reason,now working again.

This pic31084shows all old glow plugs from 1 to 5 that is front to rear, couldn't find firing order.

Each plug has heavy sooting on tip and is vastly different along stem.I welcome any comments or diagnosis regarding condition.

In February I had a scan done by MB dealer and I struggle to understand the meaning, even the mechanic:hmmm: at the time wasn't really able to explain adequately.

Maybe some guru's out there will be able to understand and shed some light on what these scans mean????

Cheers
Kappy
This is what potentially may happen worst case scenario.

Kappy you were previously advised and ignored what was asked for.
So be it.
Your cell co-ordinate Flies are incomplete. in both Current stored Codes on your Control unit CR: Code is incomplete for Glow plugs no Current values nor cell co-ordinate 7.6 status showing for stored and current issues.
Filter Status:all control inputs are incomplete with ECU Results cell co-ordinate 5.23
You have multiple issues with electrics which show in part stored and part current status.[Incomplete]..
You appear to have injection issues with preheating system Test required for relay voltage status and Glow plugs . Part of the what you have showed in the schematics suggest Injection quantity for advanced or under-advanced status for both [current values] and status for stored [Units]
Control modules with out communications is not an issue but Can bus communication is. as to your part codes shown via your tech printout.
My advise is to go back to Benz and sort this out ASAP/ before you end up paying a lot more than you have bargained for.
Your conflict with previous stored codes need to be cleared first.

Note: there are files in archives under File name: Das/Trees/....to show cause of failures.
Glow plug: Heating rod and dents.
cause break-in the spiral caused by operation with excessive voltage,eg,with a starter aid.
Current applied to long by suspended relay this is applicable to Duration of Glow plug unit monitoring phase. for current values [first and last]
Use of a non -aftermarket -comparable Glow plug voltage differences.
There are remedies.
Heating rod ,melted or broken , and or with severe pitting.
Over heating of the heating rod due to premature start of injection.[again as indicated previously.....[Current injected quantity] Direct injected quantity, on No1/ No2/ No3/ No4/ No5//: mm^cylinder hub = excessive soot build up if not matching.
needle plug blocked or clogged with soot, engine damage,eg. due to piston corrosion or valve breakages etc.
Piston rings blocked or stuck.

[kappy5003]

This is what potentially may happen worst case scenario.

Kappy you were previously advised and ignored what was asked for.
So be it.
Your cell co-ordinate Flies are incomplete. in both Current stored Codes on your Control unit CR: Code is incomplete for Glow plugs no Current values nor cell co-ordinate 7.6 status showing for stored and current issues.
Filter Status:all control inputs are incomplete with ECU Results cell co-ordinate 5.23
You have multiple issues with electrics which show in part stored and part current status.[Incomplete]..
You appear to have injection issues with preheating system Test required for relay voltage status and Glow plugs . Part of the what you have showed in the schematics suggest Injection quantity for advanced or under-advanced status for both [current values] and status for stored [Units]
Control modules with out communications is not an issue but Can bus communication is. as to your part codes shown via your tech printout.
My advise is to go back to Benz and sort this out ASAP/ before you end up paying a lot more than you have bargained for.
Your conflict with previous stored codes need to be cleared first.

Note: there are files in archives under File name: Das/Trees/....to show cause of failures.
Glow plug: Heating rod and dents.
cause break-in the spiral caused by operation with excessive voltage,eg,with a starter aid.
Current applied to long by suspended relay this is applicable to Duration of Glow plug unit monitoring phase. for current values [first and last]
Use of a non -aftermarket -comparable Glow plug voltage differences.
There are remedies.
Heating rod ,melted or broken , and or with severe pitting.
Over heating of the heating rod due to premature start of injection.[again as indicated previously.....[Current injected quantity] Direct injected quantity, on No1/ No2/ No3/ No4/ No5//: mm^cylinder hub = excessive soot build up if not matching.
needle plug blocked or clogged with soot, engine damage,eg. due to piston corrosion or valve breakages etc.
Piston rings blocked or stuck.

Richard
I really don't understand any of what you are explaining here. Is there a simpler language.

Attending my local MB dealer was like I was from Mars.

I asked them for what was suggested and this is what I got.

Even the mechanic couldn't explain.

Cheers
Kappy

[Altered Sprinter]

Richard
I really don't understand any of what you are explaining here. Is there a simpler language.

Attending my local MB dealer was like I was from Mars.

I asked them for what was suggested and this is what I got.

Even the mechanic couldn't explain.

Cheers
Kappy Simply put Kappy your minus the diagnostic test results of the values.
I''d suggest your mechanic maybe struggling due to lack of sufficient training, as to a two speed economy in WA.Any fully trained diesel mechanic with software training gets in excess of AU$120 thousand per-annum , and no mechanic is paid any where near that at Benz.
What I was trying to get through to you is like it or not without the Diagnostic tests you will never fully resolve your problems.
Yes in part you can manually test each and every wire looking for shorts or voltage spikes. You can manually pulse test a relay and or module for continuity of voltage or lack of .
Most modules are sealed like your glow plug relay five fuses are within the unit. these can be fixed but at a 100 dollars plus a few more bucks/or 240 if you buy locally. you simply replace them because of the time involved to find the fault.
But this does not resolve the cause , most of your faults are stored and your canbus is showing stored faults with a http://sprinter-source.com/forum/images/icons/icon4.gif and a voltage that is not consistent to the set values of the ECU programmable. DAS acquisition signals
You have two electronic systems one is digital , this requires Benz . the other is analog and this can be fixed by your self by testing every signal pin on a relay or module ,you equally require some specialized gear to read a pulse signal which has it's own unique codex , that comes with a ECU Can bus manual not available to you or the general public, as it's part of the MB training program for the techs.
Now you have a glow plug that is showing consistent.[This is a delayed timer, voltage acquisition] related to preheating of the duration of glow plug unit monitoring phase/and glow plug output. as to your glow plug Code faults shown as -F- under Current values [First and last] string data type which in English is a series of constant pules. .The question is what are you going to do to resolve the ongoing issue before you blow another set of plugs or God forbid another high pressure fuel pump. where again you have no shown Current values [first/last) for current injected quantity /: A figure to suggest can be 28.56 for unit No 1 mm^1Hub = cylinder no 1
It's not the issue of not understanding but working with the the Benz complex electronic fuel injection system.
Eric is half way there I'll give him credit where credit is due, But no modern mechanic will work with electronic Filter status with out the ECU diagnostic evaluations.
Now step back and go through what you did, look at your report and say! How can I manually check out what is possibility wrong?
You have ABS software problems including tail lamp.This is an example.of pulse acquisitions signaling..
Richard
31090

[maxextz]

looks like a police line up........number 4"s looks guilty as hell.:lol:
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=31089&d=1299889356

great post by the way.:thumbup:

[brassarl]

Sorry uploaded wrong pic,:hmmm: this is correct one31089

Cheers
Kappy


It is really curious how much they differ in colors!! I would have expected all to be same color, do these indicate the health of each cylinder? Similar to plugs in a gas engine.:thinking:

[talkinghorse43]

It is really curious how much they differ in colors!! I would have expected all to be same color, do these indicate the health of each cylinder? Similar to plugs in a gas engine.:thinking:

The only part of these that is exposed to the inside of the engine is the soot-covered tip (above the shiny shoulder). The highly colored areas are probably the result of water from rain, etc. corroding the metal.

[Aqua Puttana]

...
The highly colored areas are probably the result of water from rain, etc. corroding the metal.
I don't know what caused it, but how does rain, etc. get into that area? Isn't that chamber an enclosed space in the head? vic

[kappy5003]

Is the part of the plug between the thread and the bevelled area near the tip come in contact with any coolant?

Just as interesting is that No 4 aprt fronm the tip looks brand new.:idunno:

Have no idea if or when it was replaced, I have done 7000km since purchasing.

BTW all glow plugs old and new are genuine MB parts:bow:

Cheers
Kappy

[GEARS]

The only section of the glow plug that is in the chamber is the tip till the first taper, about 10mm of length. Note the color of the tip, it's gray from being exposed to combustion. From there to the taper seal is just the length to get to the combustion chamber.

No section is exposed to coolant.

The rust section is the main body and it'll get rusty from moisture getting past the threads. You don't want the glow plug to get rusty like that because it'll severely weaken it sometimes causing them to snap off while removing them.

When I replaced the glow plugs on my 2005 Sprinter I first took an air hose and blew all the grit and crud out of the pocket that the glow plug threads into.

Then I sprayed them down good with penetrating oil and drove it for a week to give plenty of time to soak in good.

When it came time to remove the glow plugs I shot some brake cleaner around the glow plugs and blew that out with compress air. I did this to avoid getting trash into the engine and the sealing surface of the taper. I like things extra clean.

I removed them while the engine was hot and they unscrewed with ease.

When installing the new glow plugs I used the snazzy nickel base anti seize from Permatex.

[kappy5003]

Thanks Gear

The old ones came easy enough.

I didn't do any of the blowing and cleaning as you suggested but did use Locktight anti seize to make it easy to remove next time, now that Iv'e done it once I may go back and clean like you suggest.

If the the tip should be grey, can you offer an opinion why mine are very black and sooty, there is only a small section that is greyish.

Cheers
Kappy

[GEARS]

Because of how they are positioned in the chamber.

One side faces towards the center of the chamber & injector while the rest is in the shadow.

[Altered Sprinter]

Back to square one: Soot on plugs .
Overheating of the heating rod due to premature start at injection.
Nozzles blocked or clogged with soot.
Engine damage due to piston corrosion or valve broken /damaged.
Kappy you have open circuits. injection quantity issues etc. again I repeat
Your Diagnosis Assistance System from MB WA for MB Sheet 1,2 and 3 are incomplete as there are no Current values {first/last} shown including no Unit status shown either for Current Fault codes /Control unit CR for cell co-ordinate 7.6
File name: F/Programme/Das/Trees/transp/crspr01/sgscreen/AFCR1.s

Kappy: Filter Status :All control units for the ECU are not complete.
File name: F/Programme/Das/tress/transp/menus/mnSprRoW.s cell co-ordinate 5.23
I have looked at the three printouts shown. You have 4 -F- fail/test
5..http://sprinter-source.com/forum/images/icons/icon4.gifhttp://sprinter-source.com/forum/images/icons/icon4.gifhttp://sprinter-source.com/forum/images/icons/icon4.gifhttp://sprinter-source.com/forum/images/icons/icon4.gifhttp://sprinter-source.com/forum/images/icons/icon4.gif faults with communications
ECU/Can Bus/ WSP/KI instrument cluster not to mention ESP and ABS problems
Most of your inboard digital communications are in operative.
You have voltage under and over issues.
Your ESP BAS System is inoperative, along with transmission modules.
Quick test: reveals injections quantity issues. This relates to advanced or under advanced timing.
The list is endless as again your printout does not show acquisition signals Voltage and or duration of glow plug phase Filter test for pulse acquisitions via pin terminals on modules 6 of via can bus . which is a result of ECU lost discreet information. values that need to be re-set.
Your plugs are manufactured by Beru/ Note: do not use oil or grease on threads.The threads on all Beru glow plugs are nickle plated in this way seizing of the said glow plugs is reliably prevented thus, under no circumstance oil or grease threads.
Please remove the glow plugs and clean the LOCTITE thread locker off as it will be impacted by carbon residue.
Clean the bore out with a cloth and a light coating of thinners to clean the thread as well. the thinners will help to assist in tacking off old residue s of contamination..I hope this does not enter your chambers either.
Re place the plugs , they will go in freely with your fingers Tighten each plug exactingly to the correct torque rating 20 Nm do not over torque as this will push your Rod further into the combustion chamber and potentially cause an incorrect burn.
Do a glow plug voltage check with ignition on and off each will be consistent at 11.8v max
Clean and inspect the glow plug terminals and check for consistent voltage 11.5v min to 11.8 max with ignition on .I have no faith in multie meters but let the tester settle , they settle down to a fixed voltage sooner or latter.
The idea is to preheat the glow plugs for ten minutes but as you don't have a preheater box. I guess you will have to start and idle for ten to 15 minutes.
There are glow plug reamers and brushes available to clean the bore threads with . but getting them is not that easy in OZ ..Do you best to clean everything and avoid carbon from dropping into the chambers.
If the glow plug light remains on after you have started it , bare in mind your glow plug relay may not be at fault: As your dashboard Communications are defective as is your can bus and ECU stored codes.
This Kappy you have no option on ..Take it back to Benz. or you will spend no amount of time manually doing checks on every single pin trying to find faults and most of the faults can be reset at MB.
I could say most of your issues are coming from the rats nest of butchered wiring. from your MB printout this evident.
I'll say no more.
Cheers Richard.

31105

31106

31107

[talkinghorse43]

Back to square one: Soot on plugs .

Soot on the recessed (in head) shaft of a glowplug does not indicate poor economy - or any other problem for that matter. Case in point, see below glowplugs recently removed from our '04 VW Golf TDI-PD after 100k miles service. This one regularly consumes <6 l/100km.

[mrighter]

First of all, what engine do have. 2.7 0r 3.0. the glow plog module on both engines are internally fused. If a glow plug shorts out internally it also takes out the fuse inside the module. the 2.7 system is a 12 volt system and can be tested with a 15 amp fuse and two lengths of wire. connect one length of wire to the glow plug with the fuse in the middle then connect the other side of the wire to 12 volts. If the fuse blows within ten seconds the glow plug is bad. The 3.0 is not a 12 volt glow plug system so the 2.7 test does not apply.


It is very important to get the eng. very hot before attempting to remove any glow plug.

also never apply anti-sieze to the glow plug. Any type of lubricant increases toruqe.

[GEARS]

As for greasing or applying anti-seize to the threads, if Mercedes would have done this from factory they would have less people snapping off glow plugs and needing more expensive repairs. When I installed mine I just torqued them 30* and called it a day. But don't do as I do, just follow what Mercedes tells you and keep current with that 2nd decimal point.

[kappy5003]

Back to square one: Soot on plugs .
Overheating of the heating rod due to premature start at injection.Is this from starting before Glow plug goes out.?
Nozzles blocked or clogged with soot.
Engine damage due to piston corrosion or valve broken /damaged.
Kappy you have open circuits. injection quantity issues etc. again I repeat
Your Diagnosis Assistance System from MB WA for MB Sheet 1,2 and 3 are incomplete as there are no Current values {first/last} shown including no Unit status shown either for Current Fault codes /Control unit CR for cell co-ordinate 7.6
File name: F/Programme/Das/Trees/transp/crspr01/sgscreen/AFCR1.s

Kappy: Filter Status :All control units for the ECU are not complete.
File name: F/Programme/Das/tress/transp/menus/mnSprRoW.s cell co-ordinate 5.23
I have looked at the three printouts shown. You have 4 -F- fail/test
5..http://sprinter-source.com/forum/images/icons/icon4.gifhttp://sprinter-source.com/forum/images/icons/icon4.gifhttp://sprinter-source.com/forum/images/icons/icon4.gifhttp://sprinter-source.com/forum/images/icons/icon4.gifhttp://sprinter-source.com/forum/images/icons/icon4.gif faults with communications
ECU/Can Bus/ WSP/KI instrument cluster not to mention ESP and ABS problems
Most of your inboard digital communications are in operative.
You have voltage under and over issues.
Your ESP BAS System is inoperative, along with transmission modules.
Quick test: reveals injections quantity issues. This relates to advanced or under advanced timing.
The list is endless as again your printout does not show acquisition signals Voltage and or duration of glow plug phase Filter test for pulse acquisitions via pin terminals on modules 6 of via can bus . which is a result of ECU lost discreet information. values that need to be re-set.Can resetting by MB scanning equipment aleviate most issues????
Your plugs are manufactured by Beru/ Note: do not use oil or grease on threads.The threads on all Beru glow plugs are nickle plated in this way seizing of the said glow plugs is reliably prevented thus, under no circumstance oil or grease threads.
Please remove the glow plugs and clean the LOCTITE thread locker off as it will be impacted by carbon residue.Will do
Clean the bore out with a cloth and a light coating of thinners to clean the thread as well. the thinners will help to assist in tacking off old residue s of contamination..I hope this does not enter your chambers either.
Re place the plugs , they will go in freely with your fingers Tighten each plug exactingly to the correct torque rating 20 Nm do not over torque as this will push your Rod further into the combustion chamber and potentially cause an incorrect burn.
Do a glow plug voltage check with ignition on and off each will be consistent at 11.8v max
Clean and inspect the glow plug terminals and check for consistent voltage 11.5v min to 11.8 max with ignition on .I have no faith in multie meters but let the tester settle , they settle down to a fixed voltage sooner or latter.Is there a link available on how this is done?
The idea is to preheat the glow plugs for ten minutes but as you don't have a preheater box. I guess you will have to start and idle for ten to 15 minutes.
There are glow plug reamers and brushes available to clean the bore threads with . but getting them is not that easy in OZ ..Do you best to clean everything and avoid carbon from dropping into the chambers.
If the glow plug light remains on after you have started it , bare in mind your glow plug relay may not be at fault: As your dashboard Communications are defective as is your can bus and ECU stored codes.
This Kappy you have no option on ..Take it back to Benz.What in MB language do I ask them to do, last time they looked at me like I was talking martian or you will spend no amount of time manually doing checks on every single pin trying to find faults and most of the faults can be reset at MB.
I could say most of your issues are coming from the rats nest of butchered wiring. from your MB printout this evident.Is the butchered wiring from decommissioning as Ambo or maybe some of suspect wiring from previous owner?
I'll say no more.
Cheers Richard.

31105

31106

31107

Richard
As you already know I don't have easy access to an MB dealer. Being approx 240k from Perth.

We have only 1 MB dealership in WA, on my last visit I felt as they weren't making money out me that they sorta fobbed me off, therefore not confident on returning there unless armed with the correct speak.

I appreciate all your advise, but I'm a loss at some of the techo jargon:frown: and manual tests you talk about, as I am somewhat a novice by comparison.:bow: I also get the impression that my Sprinter is about explode in a million peices:bash:if I drive another foot without doing anything.

Cheers
Kappy

[Aqua Puttana]

Soot on the recessed (in head) shaft of a glowplug does not indicate poor economy - or any other problem for that matter. Case in point, see below glowplugs recently removed from our '04 VW Golf TDI-PD after 100k miles service. This one regularly consumes <6 l/100km.
TH43,
That seems reasonable to me. I doubt anyone runs their engine at a highway 3000 rpm and shuts it down immediately before changing the glow plugs. I know that I often pull my Sprinter out of one driveway and over to the garage before I do work. I'm not surprised to find a bit of soot on my glow plug tips given that scenario. YMMV. vic

[sprintguy]

The corrosion on the plugs is more likely from the fact that the metal the plugs are made of are dissimular to the aluminum head bore. Steel and aluminum don't mix too well, any type of condensation will cause corrosion.
As for the sooted up tips of the plugs...... You have to remember any type of combustion (be it diesel or gas) creates soot or carbon . Diesel combustion creates a high amount of soot in the chamber , then lets add crankase gas recovery systems, and small amounts of engine oil from said system, then lets add in the quality of the fuel being burned. There is no reason to be alarmed to see glow plugs in this condition, unless there is some sort of running issue. As for applying the anti-seeze, only apply a very minute amount to the threaded area ( light coat) anymore than that and you can run the risk of the anti seize acting as a glue over time.
The best idea is to plug off the hole at the end of the glow plug bore, and use a gun barrel cleaning kit to thouroughly clean the bore and threaded area than TOURQUE the plugs into place.

Carl

[kappy5003]

Last night based on sound advise I remove all the glow plugs and thoroughly cleaned all the threads and the threaded hole into head.

After cleaning glow plugs screwed in finger tight easy pezzy.

Tighten to take slack the finished of with torque wrench at 14.7 lbs

Now that I've done them a couple of time only an hours to remove clean and refit.

Cheers
Kappy

[Altered Sprinter]

Last night based on sound advise I remove all the glow plugs and thoroughly cleaned all the threads and the threaded hole into head.

After cleaning glow plugs screwed in finger tight easy pezzy.

Tighten to take slack the finished of with torque wrench at 14.7 lbs

Now that I've done them a couple of time only an hours to remove clean and refit.

Cheers
Kappy
Good now your listening :bow:
Your codes I can 100% appreciate your lack of understanding, however you replaced a Hi pressure fuel pump ! did you not?
One of your codes P 2007 -01 relates to fuel delivery minimum pressure not reached .
Trust me on this Kappy I know what I am talking "ABOUT"
CODE FAULT 2: P2007-02 Fuel pressure delivery is inconsistent to the exact pressure of MB setting for fuel delivery fault stored.
If again: You have blown a fuse in the relay "and the relay may not be damaged" as to your codes indicating Voltage settings and under the Das menues of MB manuals index
Your codes specifically show loss of signal acquisitioning from can bus via the ecu and a pin is shown.[The pin can be traced to the codex and where the problem lays. this can only be reset via a discreet recoding via analog pulse settings as your main digital Annalise system is currently not active.
As I have tried to explain to you Kappy irrespective of how far you have to travel this is not a back yard mechanical fix unless you have the specialized tools to commit to a repair.
This is not your fault again.However if the complete printout was shown at least the Control fault codes for your CR.. would have reveled both voltages and Current injected quantity.on your 5 cylinders.
This is an example from MB Das menues. that relates to one code shown.Under filter status All control units.
AB airbag MB 0028203826 result -F- = fail if it passed the filter status would show -J- for active communication via the ECU cab bus module right down to the wiring fault pin and codes to commit a repair. which once reset the code fault can be cleared.
My point is I'm not an expert, and the forum is here to help ....But a trip to MB/WA needs to be expatiated to fully diagnose your codes before any lasting damage is done.
I can tell you what the codes means and what is the cause or causes such as Glow plug soot white or black or golden brown each has a story to tell. and the information comes direct from MB or the OM manufactures as per their extensive archives with Plugs specific to a brand. not a genetic after make product.
31182



Take one step at a time, and you will end up loving that Van to bits if you do it right.
Cheers Richard

[Eric Experience]

Kappy.
Sorry I have had a little holiday, but glad to be back. You have done well with your glow plugs, the plugs last about 200,000 with short trips, the life of a glow plug is related to the number of starts. You will be doing long trips so you will never have to redo your plugs. The antisieze is irelevant for that reason. One of your plugs has a burn mark on the side about half way down, this tells us that that plug was shorting inside, this will have blown a fuse in the glow plug relay box, the extra amps may have over heated the plug on the top of the glow plug making it loose. To fix the blown fuse you will have to remove the left headlight again and then remove the relay box and open it, then inspect the fuses with a multi meter. repair it with a piece of wire as close to the same diametre as you can get to the original. Dont be tempted to use thicker wire as the computor uses the voltage drop across this fuse as a way of gauging the amps flowing into the plug. The relay box is the same for 6 cylinder motors so there is in effect a spare fuse in the box. The difference in colour of you plugs is of no concern, the difference in the soot is because some were hot and others not. Your vehicle is in good condition. it may have a few stored codes from a mistake when the tow bar was fitted, but nothing to worry about. Eric

[kappy5003]

Kappy.
Sorry I have had a little holiday, but glad to be back. You have done well with your glow plugs, the plugs last about 200,000 with short trips, the life of a glow plug is related to the number of starts. You will be doing long trips so you will never have to redo your plugs. The antisieze is irelevant for that reason. One of your plugs has a burn mark on the side about half way down, this tells us that that plug was shorting inside,Eric the plug with the mark on it is No 1, I noticed when I removed the new one's to clean them I noticed a mark on the same new plug, there is also similar marks on the old No3 and No5. How can the plug be touching something inside the head, Any opinions this will have blown a fuse in the glow plug relay box, the extra amps may have over heated the plug on the top of the glow plug making it loose. To fix the blown fuse you will have to remove the left headlight again and then remove the relay box and open it, then inspect the fuses with a multi meter. repair it with a piece of wire as close to the same diametre as you can get to the original. Dont be tempted to use thicker wire as the computor uses the voltage drop across this fuse as a way of gauging the amps flowing into the plug. The relay box is the same for 6 cylinder motors so there is in effect a spare fuse in the box. The difference in colour of you plugs is of no concern, the difference in the soot is because some were hot and others not. Your vehicle is in good condition. it may have a few stored codes from a mistake when the tow bar was fitted, but nothing to worry about. Eric

Hope you had a good holiday.

Is there away to re wire the towbar wiring to eliminate any further issues. I have discovered some of iffy wiring that the previous owner has done I've fixed some He has used wire crimp things I prefer solder and heat shrink tube.
Cheers
Kappy

[Eric Experience]

Kappy.
The burn marks are caused by the wire inside the plug touching the outer case, not the head.
For the wire to touch the case the insulation must have broken down inside the glow plug. The marks on the new plugs?, sorry can not figure that out. With the trailer wireing,the circuit must be ok if it all works so just redo the job to a higher standard. The stored wireing problems must have been fixed, just the codes not erased. Eric

[Iggy66]

Great thread Kappy,

I'll be interested to see where it ends, my bet is no improvement to your economy issues but at least you'll eventually get rid of the glow plug light constantly illuminating your instrument cluster (I'm now used to seeing my glow light after 125,000Km and would actually miss it if it wasn't there)

You need to understand that when a diagnostic test is performed all current and stored faults will be shown, this could mean faults from years ago caused by a poor electrical connection or voltage issues will present themselves unless they have been previously cleared. You need to keep a copy of all your codes for future reference but then all codes should be cleared and start with a clean slate to see what will present when next scanned.
I guarantee any Sprinter more than a couple of years old will show many stored codes when first hooked up to the Mercedes Star Diagnosis, the secret is how you interpret and deal with whats been stored, current codes are a different issue.

I scanned a mates ML270 once and could tell him about faults from years ago that had been repaired but the codes hadn't been cleared (faulty passenger side rear ABS sensor which Mercedes replaced without then clearing the code)

A dealership diagnostic scan is only as good as the operator doing the scan and in my experience most service technicians are pretty useless.

Pity you don't live anywhere near me as I'd be happy to plug my diagnostics into your vehicle.


Cheers, Iggy

[Altered Sprinter]

at least your talking sense iggy.
Kappy has multiple codes as you can see they are current and stored old one show a different sequence. When a code is cleared your supposed to keep records of it for duplication if the event arises latter on.
Part of his problem is the communication module and this requires a series of tests to commit to to diagnose the fault. CP-1482--04 No 4 cylinder shows he has module and comm faults and the DTC's are stored. one has a question mark this refers to as a fault not fail -f-
Communication fault
Short circuit
Excess current
Incorrect Diagnostic sequence "INTERNAL FAULT MODULE"
now he can do three tests .
Measure for resistance of the glow plug circuit if resistance is below 10.00ohms then the actual plugs need to checked for resistance of voltages then the Module then the glow plug module.
If come comes clean the glow plug light will turn off automatically on the dash but he has canbus and ecu faults as well, these may be part of his many issues.
Richard

[Aqua Puttana]

Great thread Kappy,
...

(I'm now used to seeing my glow light after 125,000Km and would actually miss it if it wasn't there)
...

Cheers, Iggy
Iggy,
I ran in that MIL (ECU) light on mode for quite some time because I had glow plug faults and a wanky O2 sensor which responded to cleaning. I didn't really worry about it.

I ultimately decided it would be best to take care of the problems and clear the light. One of the major things which caused my shift in thinking was the damage which can be done with a faulty injector. I realize the computer and MIL may not even recognize an injector fault until it's too late, but at least I will now notice if any codes are thrown. It could give me the information I need to avoid major damage. YMMV.

Thanks for your continued input. It's always helpful. vic

[kappy5003]

Thanks Iggy
I do have an idea about codes and their removal, i also have a 960 Volvo with an earlier version of OBD. On this version apparently you have to read the codes twice before they can be removed. Before I new that Ihad a code that to keep popping up.

The main thing that stumps me is the jargon that is sometimes used.

I guess by an earlier post you live in NSW???

Can I asked what type of scanning device you use?

I agree about the dealership scan, I thought I was getting a complete scan and removal of any codes, it was only recently I discovered how lacking it was.

Cheers
Kappy

[Iggy66]

Hi Kappy,

Yes I live on the other side of the country to you.

Lets just say my diagnostic equipment is more comprehensive than DAD and way better than my local Mercedes Stealership because the operator of my equipment cares about getting the the best results and isn't in a hurry to finish and move on to the next poor helpless customer.

How much did it cost you for 5 new glow plugs and the special removal socket, you've now got me thinking about turning my glow light off permanently. :hmmm:

Cheers, Iggy

[Eric Experience]

Kappy.
Just to clarify the code problem. The low fuel pressure is fixed, the lack of data from the glow plug is because the fuse is blown, the computor measures the voltage drop across the fuse to determine if the glow plug is working, when you fix the fuse that will fix that code, so all is good. If any parameter is out of the plausable zone the motor will go into limp mode. Eric.

[kappy5003]

Hi Iggy
I think I'll make contact with the guy that did my high pressure pump, he intimated he could do scans, he did a good job and came to me after hours and he was reasonable, easier to talk with that the MB stealership.

I got my plugs through Chris Case chriscase@gerardmann.co.uk his prices were really great, local price was $51+ gst I can't remember the exact figrue on my laptop and my wife has it in Bali.

Sent him an email, so far he's supplied me with heaps of parts still cheaper even with post.

Cheers
Kappy

[kappy5003]

I was going to start a new thread, but its still the same topic.

Well manage to make some time out of hectic schedule to re-address the glow plug issue.

Been a bit pre-occupied of late with this young fellow. Has my attention for abot 6 to 7 feeds a day.
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31413
31414

On with the story, so I have replaced all 5 glow plugs and still my glow plug light remains on after starting.

So based on info I have gleaned of this forum I decide to remove the module and dissect.

I don't have a Japanese saw so I use my trusting dremel. not as smooth but still affective.

[Altered Sprinter]

Cute as a glow plug:thumbup:

[kappy5003]

Cont
So I have module open enough to examine the inside
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31416
Well you won't believe my discovery, I see one fuse blown I what I will call the front
31417
and 2 fuses blown on what I will call the back.
31418
So I am not close to any retail stores to obtain any fuse holders that I have seen as a remedy, so based on some information from another member of this forum which seems logical to me I decide on another tack.

As a matter of convenience and availability I locate some 15 amp fuse wire from the kitchen drawer and figrue a little soldering might be the order. I figrue by observation that this 15amp wire is a close by size to the blown fuse and besides what have I got to lose.

The car started with 3 blown fuses so can't really do any more harm.

So I cut some wire as close to correct length as I can then prepare both wire and blown fuse.
I trimmed the melted part of the fuse. I decide to use small soldering iron ( 25 watt) this is not working making an awful mess not enought heat, so grab the big guns (80watt) and surprisingly still enough room to work. Well plently of heat and all wire soldered in a flash.

Cont

[kappy5003]

So all soldered, looks ok to me, maybe not the best soldering job, but this is more an experiment than any else.
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So now its late very keen to try but that will have to wait till the cool light of day.

The cut sections of the module will silicon up if all go well
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31422

Wait for the morning.

[kappy5003]

Well the morning has come now is the time try the fruit in the pudding.

So all connected31423 turn on ignition glow plug light is extiguished start engine :yell: light comes back on.:thinking:

Oh well:idunno: back to the drawing board, so turn off ignition, maybe I'll try again-- turn key glow plug on then goes out. start engine :bounce: no glow plug light :rad: you beauty.
31424

Just to make sure re try several times still no glow plug light after ignition.

So remove and silicon parts together and back in again.

Thanks to all the information from other posters.

Waiting for next project there is more-----:shifty:

Cheers
Kappy

[Iggy66]

Kappy, :bow::bow::bow:

Looks like you're close to the top of that steep learning curve that faces new Sprinter owners, well done and thanks for the detailed pics and information.

I really have no excuses to now not fix my own orange light issues.

Cheers, Iggy