Help sprinter won't start

[Kuba8]

Hi guys
I can't start my sprinter!!! The first sign of trouble was when I tried to get in the van using the remote and doors made a strange sound like it was really trying but was caught on something. The doors opened and then I noticed that before I start the van there is usually a sound like landing gear coming down and that was missing.

I turned the ignition all that happened was the warning lights that all come up during start lights started flashing and the van would not start. The sound was kind of like lots of clicking engaging and disengaging. I tried to turn on the hazard lights and all I got was a buzzing sound and no lights. The head lights are dead and the windscreen wipers are on max just inch against the screen. The van will not lock when I press the lock key instead it just locks and unlocks.

I did notice that everything seems to go at a million miles like trying really hard to do what its supposed to do. I had a new battery installed a few days ago when the clutch was done. It looks like everything electrical is stuffed so im assuming that the battery is flat. I have a receipt from 6 months ago when the pump was done stating need further checks on batteries getting falt. Simon from eurostar repaced the old battery as he said it was stuffed. Below is a clip of what happens when I try to start the van.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4sDaqrt_CI

Does anyone know what could be causing this Fault. Could it be a stuffed alternator, a short in the wiring or some switch/relay causing problem? Ive driven the van for around 4 days during the day on a new battery. Thanks in advance.

:cheers:
Jakub

[Iggy66]

Jakub,
Looks like your battery is flat, sounds like you have an underlying problem with the battery not charging or possibly discharging when the vehicle is turned off. Remove the battery & trickle charge to bring it back up to 100% then check for charging voltage when back in vehicle with a multimeter or get it to a auto electrician.

[Altered Sprinter]

Try this as the fast route,
Your battery appears to have insufficient voltage to cold crank start :below 9.2v
Take your battery to a professional battery seller and ask for a diagnosis check forget the multie meter it will tell you nothing .
If you were local I could do this using the same as Mercedes is using Midtroincs.
Battery test
Good battery Volts 13.02v
Measured 6121CCA
Ratting 7000CA
Battery type regular Deep cycle H/D
Starter test Volts Normal 10.59v
Charging Test
OK Volts 14.29v
You may not have a bad battery ?
However to recharge these batteries you need to acquire high quality eight stage chargers designed for these batteries such a CteK not cheap either.
30757
Check starter cables and alt cables including battery positive and negative for clean posts corrosion can build on your stater terminals and cause a short, look for abraded wiring it's rare but again this can cause an earth out and or spike. Battery when standing overnight.
Once ign is turned on the reading will be no more ir less than 12.5v
Once engine key starts , your cold crank start voltage will drop to 10.4./5 V on real cold morns it will drop back for no more than a split second at 9.8v. the engine starts , the voltage build is rapid to 11.8v the alt will then recycle excess voltage back to your mains start the battery.
12.8v to 13.4 V , as full charge builds 14.4v with no accessory's running
.
13.8 to 14.4v is the normal charge rate on your sprinter, depends on what you are running such as heater radio etc.
I'd suggest a QRT 12v inboard battery monitor be installed full time, so you can watch the voltage fluctuation's plus track battery and alternator condition of your vehicles operation during the course of days events.
This shows a good battery. You can do a battery charge test on a charger that shows battery voltage, condition, Alternator charge =Good and cold crank starter test voltage's, as it cycles through the voltage charge sequences. Again you can attach a separate voltage indicator's LED that shows each and every sequence during the charge.
These units are the dead basic Midtroinc ctesters..
Richard

[Iggy66]

Richard,

The multimeter will tell you if the alternator is charging the battery once you get the engine started, that was my suggestion. The voltages you quoted are dependant on temperature, You'll never see 14.4v on a hot battery when fully charged, on a cold winters morning I see 14.4v on my voltage display, on a hot summers day 13.7V is perfectly normal.
If you know how to use a multimeter to it's full ability it's the most useful electrical test tool.

Cheers, Iggy

[Eric Experience]

Kubba8
Iggy is correct,a multimeter is by far the best tool. Another thing to check is the wire from the alternator to the battery can go high resistance due to oxidization in the crimps. this can be resolved by measuring the battery voltage and then measuring the votage at the heavy terminal at the back of the alternator with the motor running, the voltage at the back of the alternator should be about .1or.2 volts higher than the battery, if more feel the crimps for heat and repair by cleaning up the wire and crimping a new lug. Eric

[Altered Sprinter]

Try this as the fast route,
Your battery appears to have insufficient voltage to cold crank start :below 9.2v
Take your battery to a professional battery seller and ask for a diagnosis check forget the multie meter it will tell you nothing .
If you were local I could do this using the same as Mercedes is using Midtroincs.
Battery test
Good battery Volts 13.02v
Measured 6121CCA
Ratting 7000CA
Battery type regular Deep cycle H/D
Starter test Volts Normal 10.59v
Charging Test
OK Volts 14.29v
You may not have a bad battery ?
However to recharge these batteries you need to acquire high quality eight stage chargers designed for these batteries such a CteK not cheap either.
30757
Check starter cables and alt cables including battery positive and negative for clean posts corrosion can build on your stater terminals and cause a short, look for abraded wiring it's rare but again this can cause an earth out and or spike. Battery when standing overnight.
Once ign is turned on the reading will be no more ir less than 12.5v
Once engine key starts , your cold crank start voltage will drop to 10.4./5 V on real cold morns it will drop back for no more than a split second at 9.8v. the engine starts , the voltage build is rapid to 11.8v the alt will then recycle excess voltage back to your mains start the battery.
12.8v to 13.4 V , as full charge builds 14.4v with no accessory's running
.
13.8 to 14.4v is the normal charge rate on your sprinter, depends on what you are running such as heater radio etc.
I'd suggest a QRT 12v inboard battery monitor be installed full time, so you can watch the voltage fluctuation's plus track battery and alternator condition of your vehicles operation during the course of days events.
This shows a good battery. You can do a battery charge test on a charger that shows battery voltage, condition, Alternator charge =Good and cold crank starter test voltage's, as it cycles through the voltage charge sequences. Again you can attach a separate voltage indicator's LED that shows each and every sequence during the charge.
These units are the dead basic Midtroinc ctesters..
Richard



Richard,

The multimeter will tell you if the alternator is charging the battery once you get the engine started, that was my suggestion. The voltages you quoted are dependant on temperature, You'll never see 14.4v on a hot battery when fully charged, on a cold winters morning I see 14.4v on my voltage display, on a hot summers day 13.7V is perfectly normal.
If you know how to use a multimeter to it's full ability it's the most useful electrical test tool.

Cheers, Iggy I do Iggy, but you can't get a full diagnostic sequential readout from a multie meter in 4 states of chargeable cycling at once. hence Midtroincs its dead accutae to the nearset decimal point. Big difference on a meter that costs around 40 dollars to a 1000 dollar unit.
14.4V is accurate once charged and running without accessories 13.8v in normal too depending on the state of the Deep cycle mains start battery..
Richard

[Kuba8]

Thanks guys, Ive organised a mate to come over tomorrow with a multimeter and a trickle charger. I'm not in a position to purchase anything expensive at the moment to do the tests but thanks for the suggestion and charge values. The battery is brand new, only a week old and the terminals are clean.

[Kuba8]

After taking a closer look at the battery terminals I noticed something odd about the way the positive terminal has been connected. Its connected to some kind of switch and there is very little contact to the terminal. Could this be why the battery isn't charging?

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8163/bat1z.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/i/bat1z.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/3499/bat2s.jpg (http://img806.imageshack.us/i/bat2s.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/1751/bat3i.jpg (http://img827.imageshack.us/i/bat3i.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/3812/bat4t.jpg (http://img132.imageshack.us/i/bat4t.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

The switch was on.

[Altered Sprinter]

Follow the instruction on the green cap.
This is an on/off switch. they can be touchy.
If you have the basic of voltage meters check the battery voltage and the starter cable voltage nearest to the post. That's a poor way of installing a post and voltage loss is more than likely. Contrary to My fellow Australians opinion this is what to look for in basic voltages at terminal joins.
Your post positive + will show no less than 12.75V This is the correct [ Voltage for your Tin series].From a standing battery once engine is switched off after 20 minutes.
If the next cable[Mains start shows less than 11.53V] then your voltage loss is at this cable connection point. At worst with a dirty or partially non tightened terminal it' will show lower than the correct mis-match of voltages ,this being 11.8V no less.
If connect correctly then the voltage at terminal and wiring will show the same voltages.Of no less than 12.75V.
The information provided is 100% accurate.
I suggest you place a memory minder on your Positive lead , disconnect both terminals and sand them back to a shinny surface or use a battery terminal cleaner brush,including the outer cable connection points to the main terminals.
Apply a light coating of petroleum jelly to prevent corrosion and re-tighten the two clamps. .

[icarus]

Battery switches should always be put on the negative terminal of batteries rather than the positive, or so I have always learned. It seems wrong to have one on the positive terminal.

Just looking at the picture I can see 4 separate wire connections battery to switch, switch itself, switch to that odd horseshoe thing, (which I assume is a series of terminal lugs) and finally the battery cables them selves. Each one subject to loosening and corroding. If you put the switch on the negative post, you typically only have one ground strap, and ergo one wire connection.

Intuitively this does not seem like a good installation.

Icarus

PS for more battery info:

http://www.batteryfaq.org/

[NelsonSprinter]

Battery test
Good battery Volts 13.02v
Measured 6121CCA
Ratting 7000CA
Battery type regular Deep cycle H/D
Starter test Volts Normal 10.59v
Charging Test
OK Volts 14.29v
Richard
[/CENTER]

I don't understand why Altered thought this was a Deep Cycle battery?, when a starter battery is different, requiring more Amps to go out quickly than a deep cycle does?

I'd at least try to connect the top of that original post connection to the top bolt of the newer switch, because the original post connection has 1/10th the connection to the post now ( with 1 end connected) than it did before it was removed when wrapped all around the post.

[Oldfartt]

Hi Kuba8,

My advice would be to remove the battery switch and replace the original battery terminal onto the battery.
I believe that the battery isolator is designed to fit onto the negative terminal, not the positive terminal. They are different diameters, which is why the installer has opened out the original terminal so that a bolt can be used (inappropriately).The barrel part of the battery switch is a smaller diameter than the positive terminal as it is designed for installation on the negative terminal. The battery switch should be installed on the negative terminal where the cable terminal would fit correctly onto the barrel part with no modification.

You need to ask why this device was installed at all. Is there an underlying problem with phantom loads causing the battery to go flat? In which case that area should be explored rather than cause additional problems by inappropriately installing something that may cause unreliability.

I hope this makes sense. I have just woken up after a hard night on the town!

Cheers

Ross

[Altered Sprinter]

Tins Australia use a deep cycle start battery.
Normally 12v/88
Alt:14v/90A
Genuine Mercedes-Benz Batteries: Life span if professionally maintained up to 10 years.
Diode packs on alt recycle excessive voltage back to the battery once the voltage hits 14.2V after 14.v ...such as 14.3/14/4v It is refereed to as a voltage spike[over charging] By Mercedes-Benz.. Data string voltage sequences can be found under DAS menu/if you log into Wis and look at archives information.
There is a cost it's not free, unless you have been privileged to free access. as a guest by Mercedes-Benz Australia.
The brass green switch is decades old in design distributed by Matson Australia. and I mean decades old .
It's referred to as a Battery isolator and or voltage isolator switch.. and meant intentionally for non electronic reliant engines.
These are commonly used on main start batteries and for aux as a precursor to turn off any electrical voltage drops in the vehicles wiring system and or aux system when not in use.This switch prevents voltage draw on open live lines.
The Battery voltage cut off switch is mounted on the positive terminal and not the negative terminal.
I use these switches on my third back up battery when down on Bruny Island not a thing wrong with them, unless they vibrate lose to and open position.
30777

[Kuba8]

Thanks for the help guys:bow:

Today I tried to charge the battery with a my mates charger but unfortunatly the charger was stuffed. He could not come through with multimeter as its his father in laws and he was reluctant to lend it out as he uses it everyday but said I could come over and test the connections once the car started.

I did however connect the battery terminal properly without using the switch and tried to start the sprinter. The sprinter would not start but instead of getting all the random flashing and buzzing all the start up lights came up normally. The way the battery has been connected is a joke there was barley half a square centimeter of contact to the terminal through the switch.

All this leads me to believe is there is nothing wrong with the alternator and the trouble is that the connection to the terminal is so weak that the alternator cant charge the battery properly.

Tomorrow I will try to bum a jump off someone and go for a drive to charge up the battery again. Hopefully this is the problem. As suggested there might also be a prior electrical issue that is draining the battery as the previous owner has installed the switch.

Cheers

Jakub

[Altered Sprinter]

Jakab: Make sure your borrowed jump leads are configured for anti-zap "Voltage-Spikes"..
the small black box is half way down the jumper leads/ Other wise the potential for further issues gets dam expensive.
Richard.
30790
They don't get better than this for negative
Positive has 12v digital read out.
I never did get around to photographing it.

[Kuba8]

Hi guys,

Back on the road :rad:

I got a jump from a bloke with a sprinter down the street after connecting the battery terminal properly without using the switch. He was a bit reluctant as he was worried that jumping might fry his ECU. Luckily I found my old jumper leads in the garage that had 12 volt surge protection and he was game to try.

The sprinter started first try and I drove around for a while to charge up the battery. This morning after 12 hours off the van started without any problems so I don't think there is any major drain. I have a feeling that the previous owners battery was on the way out and this might have made him think that something was draining the battery.

It looks like the problem was due to too little contact between the battery and cable terminal making it difficult for the alternator to charge the battery.

Once again saved by sprinter forum. Thank you everybody for the helpful suggestions and advice.:bow:

Cheers
Jakub

[Oldfartt]

Glad you have a good outcome.:thumbup:

Cheers

Ross