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gottahavabenz
02-01-2011, 07:29 PM
Hey Guys,

I was talking with someone unfamiliar with Sprinters but VERY knowledgable about VW's and AUDI's the other day and I was whining about the traction control being kind of a drawback and how it's difficult to get around that function in the sprinters and he suggested wiring all four sensors to one wheel so it would never know you were spinning. Is that a possibility? :idunno:

GEARS
02-01-2011, 08:29 PM
Please let me know what you find out because the Sprinter's traction control is lame.

:rant: Even when you turn off the traction control you still have to deal with the other ultra-lame anti roll your van over control locking up the brakes and cutting engine power while you're trying to make a good run at a snow covered hill.

shortshort
02-01-2011, 08:37 PM
Huh? I've been slogging through mud and up steep, sloppy construction roads for years and never even touched the off button on the thing. The light flashes when the wheels are slipping but it goes where I point it.

Deltapco
02-01-2011, 09:01 PM
I have the 2007 High Roof extended WB 2500. The first time I took it out in the snow I will admit to being a little apprehensive. At my destination there was enough open area that was not worried about hurting anything or anyone so I decided to come to terms with the technology in this van.
I was amazed, with the systems all engaged I could not get those wheels out of line for love nor money. A real confidence booster for the way home.

Yes, simple traction control is a little lame on a standard transmission (that is what the left foot and the clutch are for) but the systems on this automatic van go way beyond just managing some wheel-spin on the drive wheels.

That said, I will 'never' use the cruise control on a slippery road even with the TCS. I am not ready to let a machine do the driving for me when conditions are anything less than perfect.

GEARS
02-02-2011, 01:05 AM
When I have a couple thousand pounds of equipment in the back it's a tank and will go anywhere but empty it's about as worthless as a mid 80's Mustang GT with bald tires.:shifty:

chris118
02-02-2011, 01:12 AM
oh I am seriously interested in this.
I take my van all over the place on 4wd roads and even some beaches.
It has no real problems except with sand or mud(where the wheels spin).
I keep my hand on the traction control off switch but the engine still cuts power and the wheels break every now and then, killing the van's momentum.

I am sure there has to be some con's to doing this modification.
opinions...:popcorn:

sailquik
02-02-2011, 02:06 AM
OK, I've been pretty vocal about the "diabolical Sprinter Traction Control (ASR)" but I've also suggested that once you get the Sprinter moving, the Sprinter ASR morphs from "diabolical" to
"wonderful/magical" and probably "life saving"!
So, shut it off to get moving, and once you are moving at > 3 or 4 mph, turn it back on.
Try a patch of black ice covering both lanes on a road that has been totally dry (no snow/no ice at all) for the last 30 miles.
There are some pretty big ruts in the black ice.
I'm going about 60 mph.
Front wheels follow the ruts that lead to the RH side of the road.
Dual Rear Wheels (DRW) decide to follow the ruts that lead toward the median.
The Sprinter ASR applied some braking ( I have no idea what wheel or how much)
and by the time I got the 50 feet to the other side of the ice we were going nice and
straight.
For a minute there I thought we were headed off the road, through the ditch, and out
into a plowed field.
That's the "wonderful and perhaps life saving" Sprinter ASR "Traction Control".
I've also been unable to get the van to move in snow, sand, and on ice with the traction
control engaged from a standstill.
That's the diabolical part, but it's real easy to simply shut it off, let the van spin a wheel here and there, but get moving without having the brakes applied on the back axle until it stalls the engine.
With ASR OFF, the brakes may come on some, and there will be alot of across the back axle "which wheel is slipping now" going on, but it normally will not reduce the power enough to stall the engine.
Leave the ASR ON and all of the above occurs, then it all locks up and stalls the engine completely.
Kinda hard to get moving with those big rear disc brakes firmly clamped on both back wheels.
So, to get moving ASR can be your worst enemy, so.... turn it off.
Once you are moving.... ASR is your best friend, so get the ASR back in action before you do something that the ASR would have/could have prevented.
Just my opinion,
Roger

Deltapco
02-02-2011, 05:29 AM
Excellent suggestion:thumbup:. I have had that situation getting started on a small slope that is icy, I just backed up as far as I could and built enough momentum from idle to make it up, frustrating.
One more tool for the Sprinter tool belt, thank you.

GEARS
02-02-2011, 07:41 AM
I toggle the switch and back pedal the throttle and seem I get around pretty good, better when loaded, but wouldn't it be nice if we could manually bump the shifter to call for a short shift.

If we could do the usual traction control off and then bump the shifter to the right to call for an early shift into 2nd gear and gently load the engine on the torque converter it probably would work pretty good in conjunction with the traction control.

Can we program the ECM to allow this sort of shift?

:cheers:

Eric Experience
02-02-2011, 10:16 AM
Gottohaveabenz.
Tampering with the wiring on the stability control would be a very stupid thing to do. MB spent millions developing the control system to make it possible for an unskilled driver to drive the sprinter in reasonable safety. It is not possible to make a system that reads the drivers mind all it can do is try to correct the errors.The stability control is on to protect you by not letting you get into a slide. If you want to drive off in very low traction conditions you can by telling the computor that you take charge of the safety issue and turn the asr off. What happens then is the computor helps you by pulsing the wheel that is spinning and you can drive of as if the diff was locked. Roger cliams that his does not work, may be a faulty batch of software in the usa market. To test you traction control place the vehicle with one rear wheel on wet grass and the other on concrete and then try to drive off, note one wheel will spin, then switch the asr off and then drive off this time there should be no wheel spin. If the there is wheel spin then your vehicle is faulty or you are using way to much throttle. Eric.

gottahavabenz
02-02-2011, 11:00 AM
Thanks for the responses guys.

My question was is that a possibility? I would love to be able to toggle it so in the scenario's some here have spoke of come up (and we are not in Aussie land with 4x4 and every conceivable option) we may be able to make it through. I agree that traction control rocks 90% of the time but it would be great to have the ability to turn it OFF completely when we choose not a temporary disable of the wheel spin until i hit 38 MPH.

Altered Sprinter
02-02-2011, 12:32 PM
Gotta-have-a-Benz: That's a coll name with some if's in NAFTA LAND.
However the ASR is only a part of your Innovative ESP program . and yes you have limits but you also equally have an advantage with auto's .{If you think out side of square of ASR and look at the bigger picture.

The Adaptive ESP: is an innovative dynamic system. which also takes into the vehicles load into account.It adjectivally intervenes,eg.IF there is an imminent risk of skidding, by applying a braking force to one or more wheels and adjusting the engine output as required so as to help the driver with a hazardous situation.Asa well as adding directional stability Adaptive ESP combines the functions of the anti-Lock braking system [ABS] acceleration Skid control [ASR] electronic brake force distribution [EDD] Brake assist and the optional start off Assist system not available on the tins But yes with the NCV.

[B]Caution: Adaptive ESP can only act within the laws of physics.It is therefore imposable for ADAPTIVE ESP to prevent skidding form aquaplaning on water ice mud and soft packed snow with ice lying underneath. This equally applies to marbleized gravel rock on a hard clay pan based road ,especially if it's corrugated. If the driver exceeds the physical limits,even ADAPTIVE ESP will not be able to prevent an accident.

to explain the ability of the limitations of a standardized [ASR]...At first signs of wheel spin ,that is to say If the rotational speed of one the drive wheels suddenly increases ,ASR steps in to adjust the engine management,reduces the engine power and intervenes in the braking system to prevent extended wheel spin.
ASR ensures smooth start off and acceleration,without extended wheel spin or sideways drift.The result is improved traction -and -saftey - particularly on split-friction or slippery surfaces.

$x4 works in a similar manor but one has more accurate control of management for stability and low range options for selecting a final drive to move forward Z1 Z2 Z# Z4 transfer cases. 4x4 are not necessarily an AWD all wheel drive unit, like a sedan as you guys state side are used to, suburu is an example.

Where one can improve traction in selection of the correct tire, and pressure; standard highway tires are great on a black top in both normal and wet conditions, introduce ice and the standard tire will fail hence the option for a snow tire, or a mud tire if on dirt roads that are muddy and very slippery.

Tires for sprinters are a hard call as no one singular tire option caters for all round conditions each road application has it's own unique criteria for operating on , So we choose a all terrain tire but these still have differences and do not always work well for a particular road surface in adverse conditions. Basically your Sprinters are not 4x4 so limiting your options are not going to resolve the situations,whereas some of you complain about over the years.

Part of the problem is the NAFTA engine management system Mismatched HP ,RPM and Torque specif actions with a Universal final axle ratio, and transmission ratios matched to the RPM that are not a standard Mercedes -Benz preset. this could have been avoided if Benz provided a lower ratio for 1st and reverse gear.for the NAFTA regions . It's interesting now since July 2009 the options for a wide tooth transmission are still not availbe in the NAFTA regions.:idunno:
Richard

gottahavabenz
02-02-2011, 02:39 PM
Richard

I appreciate your explanation. The traction control system is engineered to help us from ourselves on unsavory road conditions. Typically I am my own worst enemy. :crazy:


Still my question hangs out there, would wiring all the wheel sensors to one wheel cheat the system or would some other part of the system recognize an issue and throw codes? I don't want to do this personally but others who have posted about it may.

I do understand this is task is NOT ADVISED.

Aqua Puttana
02-02-2011, 03:08 PM
Richard

...

Still my question hangs out there, would wiring all the wheel sensors to one wheel cheat the system or would some other part of the system recognize an issue and throw codes?

...

I do understand this is task is NOT ADVISED.
As long as we're in agreement that it is a stupid idea....

My guess is that it would work if the computer doesn't see that the wires have all been put together, and it very well may see the cross connections. The sensors just provide a trigger signal so there shouldn't be a problem with the circuit loading down. I recall someone who put a Sprinter engine in another vehicle using a tone wheel (on the drive shaft?) to get past the computer being unhappy. That may have been different though.

Here's some more info on the safety systems for those who may be interested. vic

Driving Safety Systems ESP ABS ASR BAS EBD
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13202

GEARS
02-02-2011, 05:25 PM
This traction control might be might be for unskilled drivers but why are we trying to make something idiot proof? So we can put an idiot behind the wheel?

My Sprinter is stuck in a driveway that has an ever so slight incline. It's so pathetically stuck that I would love to let everyone here give it their best try just to laugh at the scientific explanation for why it's stuck.

I'm sure it would go like this, "Mercedes designed the Sprinter to get stuck as a safety feature ensuring that the driver wouldn't get on the road and risk their life..."

Hoppingmad
02-02-2011, 05:47 PM
ASR, my used DHL truck didnt even have the switch. But the wires were there and it is now.

Was very annoying trying to drive thru slippery with the brakes engaging , and engageing harder as you stepped on the gas. Glad the wires were there. But still cant get up my brothers drive. He attacks it by leaving the road around 40mph, wiggling the s curve, a hoping for the best going uphill. LOL We've had to lower it down the hill with a block and tackle once, to slippery to steer and back up.

Hoppingmad
02-02-2011, 05:50 PM
"Mercedes designed the Sprinter to get stuck as a safety feature ensuring that the driver would get on the road and risk their life..."

LOL

chris118
02-02-2011, 11:23 PM
In theory I guess it is a good traction control system. I figured the consensus here would be not to mess with it, but it did seem like an interesting modification idea.

In practice the traction control system is another story. I know the van isn't a 4wd and I am taking beyond what it was designed for. But when you get stuck because the road turned to a deeper sand and the wheels start to spin, it cuts power and therefore all your momentum from 15mph to like 3-4mph. If I could just keep the power I know I could get through with out any problem. My old 2wd dakota could with out any issue.

What's really frustrating is getting to this remote section on the coast in mexico where I got stuck on my way out there, only to find a bunch of beat to hell old 2wd sedans and station wagons with less clearance and smaller tires at the end of the road!:censored:

maybe I'm not understanding the best way to use the system:idunno:

Altered Sprinter
02-03-2011, 12:52 PM
Richard

I appreciate your explanation. The traction control system is engineered to help us from ourselves on unsavory road conditions. Typically I am my own worst enemy. :crazy:


Still my question hangs out there, would wiring all the wheel sensors to one wheel cheat the system or would some other part of the system recognize an issue and throw codes? I don't want to do this personally but others who have posted about it may.

I do understand this is task is NOT ADVISED.
Speed sensors: Anti-Lock system [ABS]
The anti-lock braking system [ABS] prevents the wheels from locking during braking .The speed sensors continually monitor each wheel.
If a wheel is on the point of locking up , the brake pressure at that wheel is reduced.When the danger of locking has been averted,the pressure is then increased again.ABS helps the driver to maintain control of the vehicle's steering, even during emergency braking.
When ABS is in operation , the driver feels a slight pulsing in the brake pedal. How many threads relate to this one with shimmy on the front ????
I have tested both Tin and NCV under extreme operation on the local race track at home.trust me they work like a treat, almost fool proof but not off road on adverse road conditions again tire and transmission ratios let you down as to lack of options being advised to a customer via the sales reps.
BRAKE ASSIST [BAS] comes into play, after this one.
Richard
30244

david_42
02-03-2011, 09:54 PM
I wouldn't mind killing the ASR. All it has ever done is shut down the engine when I'm trying to get up my driveway. I've never seen it activate under any other conditions. Not once!

Eric Experience
02-04-2011, 10:20 AM
Those that are having trouble understanding the traction system should do the test described in my rant. If the motor is shut down it means you are spinnig the wheels way to fast to get traction, and the computor is trying to help you drive properly. Try it and you will be pleased at how good the system is, Eric

Aqua Puttana
02-04-2011, 12:59 PM
...
described in my rant.

...
Eric
Which one Eric? There's been so many. :tongue: Just kidding. :hugs:

Just for the record (again?), I'm a believer in the systems. I just find that in deep snow starting from zero speed getting rolling seems to happen better with my ASR off.

Did you mean here? vic


http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13783&highlight=asr+eric

WAYNERODD
02-04-2011, 02:24 PM
I just find that in deep snow starting from zero speed getting rolling seems to happen better with my ASR off.

Count me in on this also.

ASR off when starting from zero speed in snow, or mudd helps to get you rolling faster!

Altered Sprinter
02-04-2011, 03:01 PM
Buy a 4x4
And solve your threads problems.
:tongue:

david_42
02-05-2011, 01:21 AM
Eric, please READ my prior. Stalling the van while on a gravel road and preventing it from moving at all serves no useful purpose. The simple fact that I've never seen it activate anywhere else is a clear indication that I know how to drive properly. Even driving on black ice, I haven't had a single incident.

shanemac
02-05-2011, 01:25 AM
This morning i got stuck in my back lane i wasn't badly stuck but enough to piss me off...turned traction control off and managed to get out without revving the engine to redline or taking all morning to get out.

Aqua Puttana
02-05-2011, 01:37 AM
...
...turned traction control off and managed to get out without revving the engine to redline or taking all morning to get out.
I believe I mentioned in the other thread which meandered to the ASR operation topic. They don't give you a defeat switch for ESP, BAS, or ABS, but they do give you one for ASR. Just maybe that's because they discovered that ASR ain't always perfect?

That said, I really think it's a big mistake to cross a few ASR very slow speed issues over to the ESP, BAS, and ABS systems. You may think you're up to the performance level of Mario Andretti, but guess what? The truth is your driving skills probably fall way short of the professionals. I'll take all the help I can get. FWIW. vic

Eric Experience
02-05-2011, 10:58 AM
Those that are saying they get started better with asr off should read my rant on page 1 of this thread, I am sorry if my explanation is hard to follow but I tried to make it clear. Eric.

Altered Sprinter
02-05-2011, 12:46 PM
Maybe this will help to visually explain the differences of the ESP duplications
A PDF SAFETY BROCHURE
30277
-------------------------------------
30278



Mercedes-Benz - Transporter Safety Special - Vehicle - Drive stability - ASR (http://www4.mercedes-benz.com/e/home/innovation/recentdevelopments/safety/fahrzeug/asr.htm)
Click link for animation .
ESP
ABS
BAS
ASR..Acceleration Skid Control.

All--wheel drive.
We call this 4x4 in stages.
Tins and NCV are Note: "Not Rock Climbers'.


30280
30279

How hard is it to explain?????? Solution change tires, lower tire pressures.
Equalize loads, keep your foot off the throttle.'etc,etc,etc.
Richard

Aqua Puttana
02-05-2011, 01:20 PM
Those that are saying they get started better with asr off should read my rant on page 1 of this thread, I am sorry if my explanation is hard to follow but I tried to make it clear. Eric.
Eric,
Your concrete under one wheel and wet grass under the other is good for what you're trying to show. I doubt we have a bunch of poorly programmed/performing NAFTA Sprinters.

I don't know how much experience you have with the snow built up over an icy surface which many of us encounter, but it is a completely different animal than hard pavement and wet grass. The gripping wheel is constantly changing. Often neither wheel has any traction to speak of when trying to start from a dead stop until one wheel, or both, finally grips and then quickly loses that advantage. I don't think the computer can react quickly or properly enough in that situation.

I'll go back to my rant. They give us a defeat switch because it's needed when starting from zero on ice and snow. Maybe you just never encounter the conditions it's there for. :idunno: :cheers: vic

saddledoggy
02-05-2011, 05:20 PM
...and how about when you have to spin the tires and burn through the ice/snow:laughing:if you haven't done this...you haven't lived in the snowy north:smilewink:

Hoppingmad
02-07-2011, 02:04 AM
Wife has about 300 miles on her 2011 edge
Will have to find her traction control button for her.
She got stuck in a friends driveway, inch or 2 of snow on top of packed.
just would not go. They eventually pushed it by hand. My clue when I found out was wheels did not spin, or engine accelerate when gas applied.
My sprinter is real bad about that. First time it happened to me I didnt know about it either, the more gas I gave it the slower the engine ran.

If its such a problem in the getting rolling department, maybe they should have an auto disable built in, or a below 3 mph modifier

Altered Sprinter
02-07-2011, 06:11 AM
...and how about when you have to spin the tires and burn through the ice/snow:laughing:if you haven't done this...you haven't lived in the snowy north:smilewink:
not one of you listened to Eric's Rant not one.
Snow/ Moss/ Mud/ Water/ Ice; it's all the same as to aquaplaning between two surfaces opposing each others surface under variable tensions and distribution of forces applied to the three substrates.
Liquid is fluid, it has not solid surface! It's molecular structure changes as to forces being applied,via surfaces tensions.where friction is applied."Quantum Physics dictate you have less than a 50/50 chance of doing what you want it too.
Change tires and you reduce the aquaplane effect, that influences stability and traction. including slippage, that is applied to an inappropriate tire and or air pressures.
Even I can't get up my drive if wet, from a standing start. and I have the advantage over the lot of you MANUAL.:rolleyes:
In some off road surfaces we all get rooted.:lol:
30313
Go 4x4 and stop making excuses up with yourselves.LOL
30314

GEARS
02-07-2011, 10:12 AM
You mean this? "Those that are having trouble understanding the traction system should do the test described in my rant. If the motor is shut down it means you are spinnig the wheels way to fast to get traction, and the computor is trying to help you drive properly. Try it and you will be pleased at how good the system is, Eric"

Oh wow, I have been doing it wrong all this time. :rolleyes:

Do you not have ice & snow down there?

There is no way for my Sprinter to make it up a couple hills with that nonsense turned on. Your Sprinter included would run out of fuel idling at the bottom of hill with the ARS light on while you try concoct another explanation for this BS system.:lol:

Hell if the system works so good why don't rally cars use it? Could you just imagine a rally car trying to get away from the timing lights with the traction control turned on? Real winner there.

:cheers:

gottahavabenz
02-07-2011, 10:36 AM
Liquid is fluid, it has not solid surface! It's molecular structure changes as to forces being applied,via surfaces tensions.where friction is applied."Quantum Physics dictate you have less than a 50/50 chance of doing what you want it too.

[/CENTER]

Richard I dont buy it!! When I am looking up the drive way at several other brands of vans on a job site and I am carrying tools up the driveway and they are laughing a saying "thats how you get your fuel mileage" it is annoying. Physics apparently chose to give them the good 50% every day of that job. :bash: Here's the deal if it was an option to turn off the ASR system COMPLETELY with the switch I would want the option, seeing that it is not I will do my best with good studded tires and weight in the back for traction!

kappy5003
02-07-2011, 01:32 PM
I'm only new here and no I have never driven on snow and ice.

But I have driven on vehicle swallowing salt flats and in my time have buried a few 4WD's.

Anyway the other day after some horrendous rain I had to venture out in the paddock to rescue a few sick animals. In the course of this I needed to travel over some pretty wet slippery mud flat.

While going over the this ground I felt the wheels slipping and the ASR light came on and I got through ok same deal returning over the, same ground.

IMHO the traction got me through.:2cents:

Before I brought my sprinter I did a fair bit of research and pretty well new what I was getting...

I relate this topic to if I don't like whats on TV I change channels.

BTW out of curiosity tonight I turned the ASR button off, as I took off up my dirt driveway, I arced it up and spun the wheels.

Cheers
Kappy

GEARS
02-07-2011, 07:05 PM
OMFG:bash::bash:

You people are nuts.

Ok I'll say it, traction control works great, it'll save your life and you'll have good fortune.

Now back to reality.

You can't compare mud or goose **** to snow & ice, especially if you haven't driven a Sprinter in it. Don't even try.

Hell the way people prattle on about how awesome the traction control is you probably believe in that old story Gollywhopper Egg.

Insane.

I'm out of this one.

bc339
02-07-2011, 08:15 PM
"What in tarnation is a Gollywhopper?" I demanded irritably, trying to sit up in my chair. My rheumatism gave me a painful stab and I settled back against the cushions. Mistress Smith smiled at me kindly, obviously pitying my ignorance.

"A Gollywhopper is a rare sort of eating bird, like a gigantic chicken, found only on a tiny island in the West Indies called TheresOneBornEveryMinute," she explained. "Fortunately, Peddler Johnson saved the life of the chief of the island and was awarded with one full setting of eggs from this priceless bird. Everyone in town is buying eggs as fast as Johnson can sell them. I came to see if you wanted me to buy some for you. Of course, Peddler Johnson could not guarantee that my eggs will hatch out to be a breeding pair of Gollywhoppers, but I am hopeful."

I snorted irritably. "Sounds like a hoax to me."


Read the rest by:

Gollywhopper's Eggs
A New England Legend

retold by

S.E. Schlosser

Just in case you were wondering what a Gollywhopper is..........

Bruce

Altered Sprinter
02-07-2011, 10:31 PM
Actually we'll catch you lot on the Birdsville track in full mud and flood, and see how good you can drive! ... Like were stuck, and haven't a clue.:lol:
30328

kappy5003
02-07-2011, 10:41 PM
Actually we'll catch you lot on the Birdsville track in full mud and flood, and see how good you can drive! ... Like were stuck, and haven't a clue.:lol:
30328


Richard

Is that the Birdsville Gollywopper, I heard they only come out on race day.:idunno:

Aqua Puttana
02-07-2011, 10:45 PM
As much as I love meandering though life and posts, it seems we have worked through most of the facts and are now solidly into anecdotal information and opinion.

This has been an interesting thread. :clapping:

I will give my last dig though, They give us an ASR defeat switch for a reason. :tongue:

vic

Altered Sprinter
02-07-2011, 10:53 PM
Richard

Is that the Birdsville Gollywopper, I heard they only come out on race day.:idunno:
Don't worry Kappy we have flat footers to pull the yanks out, when they get stuck on the first sand ridge. while the Aussies stand bye laughing their heads off.
Clue 1 tire pressure automatic adjustment.

30329
The Birdsville Flat footed Golly wally stopper.
30330
Sponsored by Fosters
:rolleyes:

Altered Sprinter
02-07-2011, 11:00 PM
As much as I love meandering though life and posts, it seems we have worked through most of the facts and are now solidly into anecdotal information and opinion.

This has been an interesting thread. :clapping:

I will give my last dig though, They give us an ASR defeat switch for a reason. :tongue:

vic Of just to confuse you! that's why we Aussies look at the bogger picture and think out side of the square box.

30331
Aussies are like children we never grew up, same as some very unique Canadians :hugs: they just moved on the a bigger sand pit and learn't how to drive all over again. cause were not cheap skates we spend money to get the best.
Like on the track with MB training with ESP delete..Get the big picture [ ESP delete.] Just like water off a ducks back ...Quack Quack Quack.
Richard

Oldfartt
02-08-2011, 01:49 AM
For those who may still be interested,
All the ASR Off button does, is turn off the function of the engine power reduction. The wheel braking is still active, which is why Kappy could wheelspin, as the function now is in effect an electronic diff lock. By the way we in Australia and New Zealand do have snow and ice and I have been in both in both countries and have experienced the excellent results of ASR.

Cheers

Ross

mendonsy
02-08-2011, 02:18 AM
For those who may still be interested,
All the ASR Off button does, is turn off the function of the engine power reduction. The wheel braking is still active, which is why Kappy could wheelspin, as the function now is in effect an electronic diff lock. By the way we in Australia and New Zealand do have snow and ice and I have been in both in both countries and have experienced the excellent results of ASR.

Cheers

Ross
Exactly!!
I have a very steep driveway. In the winter the Sprinter is helpless with the ASR turned on but will climb it no problem with the ASR turned off.
:popcorn:

Eric Experience
02-08-2011, 04:27 AM
I can not believe the confusion, it must be a problem with language. VIC could you do us all a big favor and translate my rant on page 0ne of this thread to American English so that you and others can understand how this superb system works. Thanks Eric.

Oldfartt
02-08-2011, 04:40 AM
Hi Eric,

Are you saying that what I wrote is incorrect? If so then please guide me to where I can find a definitive and authoritative advice on what happens and what does not happen when the ASR is turned off. I think most everyone is clear on what happens when the ASR is on.

Cheers

Ross:popcorn:

Eric Experience
02-08-2011, 04:58 AM
Ross.
No I am not saying you are wrong, we agree, it is the Americans that can not understand my description thats why I think there must be a translation problem. Eric.

Altered Sprinter
02-08-2011, 05:58 AM
Its bloody simple, for dummy's even.
ASR is a traction [Not Stability] control system.
A yellow icon will flash on your dashboard! When the system is limiting wheel spin and will stay illuminated when the system is turned off or has a malfunction.
How simple can it bee.
Then again when you look at this ridicules promo from Canada on tour...No bloody wonder the nutters:bash: can't understand plain English.
YouTube - Mercedes-Benz Sprinter on Tour Traction Control Demo www.FLEET.pro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYE_fr71rR4)

How in the world do those sales reps get away with such absolute rubbish.:lol:

Try French.

sailquik
02-08-2011, 06:52 AM
OK, I've been watching this go back and forth for several days now.
I weighed in early that the Sprinter ASR "traction control" can be both "diabolical" (when you are stuck in very low traction conditions and can not seem to get moving) and "wonderful/magical" (when it strightens out a higher speed driver error.)
Eric suggests us crazy Americans cannot translate what he is suggesting.
I took his suggestion and re-read his post.
AND.... the light bulb flashed in my brain!!!!!
Eric is correct!
It's not the way any of us really want to think the ASR works, but it's how it does work.
Here's the keys to this puzzle:
Eric wrote:
"If you want to drive off in very low traction conditions you can by telling the computor that you take charge of the safety issue and turn the asr off. "
OK... Eric you are right on here..... we (the driver) are taking control of whether or not the ASR will reduce engine power.

"What happens then is the computor helps you by pulsing the wheel that is spinning and you can drive of as if the diff was locked."
HERE IS THE NEW (to me anyway) INFO that Eric is suggesting, and I agree... Eric is absolutely correct.
Most of my posts on this subject (and there have been more than a few) state that the back axle and brakes begin to "shudder". I called this "cross axle" brake shudder.
AND.... it is precisely what Eric is telling us!
When you shut the ASR off..... the driver takes control of the amount of throttle that gets put into the mix.
The ASR still senses which rear wheel is starting to spin, and applies a pulsing braking affect on that wheel.
If the pulsing braking affect causes the wheel on the other side to start to spin, that brake will begins to pulse as well.
THE "PULSING" IS THE CROSS AXLE SHUDDER I HAVE EXPERIENCED!
It's also what got my new 2010 van up the hill and off the ice the first night when I was drving it back from the dealer up in PA.
I shut off the traction control, used some ashes under the back wheels to get out to the middle of the road (away from the treacherous rock wall) then I kept a steady light throttle and the van "shuddered" its way (at way less then a walking pace, the wheels were hardly turning) to the top of the hill and off of the icy patch.
It was somewhat "excrutiating" to me the driver to do that to a brand new MB Sprinter with
< 350 miles on the odometer.
As soon as both rear wheels got traction on the pavement above the ice patch, the shuddering stopped completely and I was able to drive off normally.
SO..... Eric is correct, with the ASR off the rear axle works just like a locked differential and really does improve the traction by not allowing either wheel to "spin up".
There's alot of shuddering and noise from the rear axle, but the ASR is doing it's job.
Apparently, this does not damage anything (beyond the drivers nerves) but I would not recommend doing this alot if it can be avoided.
Also, in all of my "loss of ability to get going" incidents, I think the tires may have been more the cause of the issues than the traction control.
I had the little 195/70R15 Continental Vanco Four Seasons on my 2006 Sprinter 3500, and while those tires wore like rocks (lasted over 100k miles) they did not provide much (if any) traction in snow/mud/sand.
I had my "first nite issues" on the icy patch coming home from the dealers on a set of brand new Continental Vanco Four Seasons in the LT215/85R16 size as OEM tires on the new 2010 MB Sprinter 3500 (144" wb).
I now have a full set of Michelin LTX MS tires in 225/75R16 on the new van and I've been through 40 miles on 4-6" of snow with hardly a wheel slip (traction control ON).

"Roger claims that his does not work, may be a faulty batch of software in the usa market."

NOW that Roger begins to understand HOW this system works and that it's NORMAL for it to
cause the back axle to SHUDDER as the system does it's work, and since there were 2 different vans involved, I was my incorrect assumptions that were faulty.
It's one of those "I do not like this design, and how it does its job, but it truly does what it was designed to do" things.
Oh, and did I say that once moving, the ASR is absoutely your best friend.
It will automaticaly correct for nearly any skid/spinout type traction "error" you as the driver
can get your Sprinter into. You won't know what exactly it did to straighten you out, only that you are still cruising down the road with the front of the van pointing the right direction.
Roger

Altered Sprinter
02-08-2011, 07:03 AM
Now that your in part starting to understand how the package works look at the proper ESP site on the UK side of the pond
They speak English.
YouTube - Mercedes Benz Adaptive ESP® (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOD5fdWVzxE&feature=related)

GEARS
02-08-2011, 07:14 AM
This system is old news but I'm glad people understand how the system works.

I would still prefer to have a limited slip differential in conjunction with the ASR or have a more aggressive use of the brakes or not reduce the engine output so the point that the van can't get it's duff moving.

Nice explanation but it still sucks.

:popcorn:

Altered Sprinter
02-08-2011, 07:22 AM
Some folks still live in the last century as to rear live axles, with axle tramp.when you floor it.
Global vehicles have moved forward with electronics to assist disabled folk who know no better, still if your want a rear differential with ABS lock it's available at 3 grand U.S for rear wheel drive.
Moving on .."At least we get to test the real McCoy live on the race track lights and all."
30335

GEARS
02-08-2011, 07:27 AM
Pulease.

It's more like this....

We have been building safety equipment for idiots for about 50 years and now we have.....

:popcorn:

GEARS
02-08-2011, 07:31 AM
not one of you listened to Eric's Rant not one.
Snow/ Moss/ Mud/ Water/ Ice; it's all the same as to aquaplaning between two surfaces opposing each others surface under variable tensions and distribution of forces applied to the three substrates.
Liquid is fluid, it has not solid surface! It's molecular structure changes as to forces being applied,via surfaces tensions.where friction is applied."Quantum Physics dictate you have less than a 50/50 chance of doing what you want it too.
Change tires and you reduce the aquaplane effect, that influences stability and traction. including slippage, that is applied to an inappropriate tire and or air pressures.
Even I can't get up my drive if wet, from a standing start. and I have the advantage over the lot of you MANUAL.:rolleyes:
In some off road surfaces we all get rooted.:lol:
30313
Go 4x4 and stop making excuses up with yourselves.LOL
30314





Richard, you really need traction control to make it up that driveway? :lol:

Dang.

Altered Sprinter
02-08-2011, 08:01 AM
If it wasn't for my tow bar it would the van needs to be moving so I'm defeated by the length of the van, not it's ability to actually do it. I can get a Mercedes Vito up, but not my tin, Its simply too low"it's simply to low for zero with a load in the back.
The Transit goes up with out a problem but I modified the rear suspension so its higher, and clears the tow bar, from catching at the bottom of the drive.
4x4 would with out engaging AWD because again, it has a higher center of gravity. You win some, others you lose.
still I have no issues with my Tin can's ability, as for the tires which don't help:bash: but the dam things just won't wear out. :popcorn:
30336

30337

30338

Andy in NH
02-08-2011, 11:32 AM
This may be a silly questions, but what are folks running for snow tires? I found a huge difference in performance once I put a good set of snows on.

Altered Sprinter
02-08-2011, 12:21 PM
Pirelli STR on road high performance and or ATR all terrain performance.
The only problem is an automatic. :Snow In light snow conditions the Tyre will break through the crust and grip on the surface below.Use High range ratio and avoid both acceleration surges and sudden braking.
In deep snow avoid revving the engine,go into low range and use very light throttle,this will encourage the tires to bite and grip rather than slip. In severe conditions it may become necessary to fit snow chains.
Rated as an excellent all-round tire on dry/ wet asphalt 4/5 snow 4/5 gravel 4/5 rock 2/5 sand 2/5 grass and mud 2/5
Basically they are what they are a snow tire and highway tire not so good as an off road dirt tracker Summer needs a different tire.
Richard

mendonsy
02-08-2011, 02:00 PM
This may be a silly questions, but what are folks running for snow tires? I found a huge difference in performance once I put a good set of snows on.
It definitely makes a big difference. It took a bit of searching to find load range E tires in the right size. We have had Cooper Discoverer ATR's on it for the last two winters and they help a lot.:2cents:

Aqua Puttana
02-08-2011, 03:22 PM
...
VIC could you do us all a big favor and translate my rant
...

Eric,
Roger did it for me as far as I can tell.

I also agree with his comments about tire quality. After a bit of reflection, since I changed out my worn Firestone Transforce (I think that was the trade name?) tires to Mastercraft A/T2's made by Cooper I haven't been needing to turn off the ASR.

I remember comments that some fleet Sprinters had problems with rear ends which was attributed to ASR off too often. I suppose that coorelates if turning the ASR off only defeats the power limiter. Full power and quick pulsing of the brakes would not be good for stress on the rear end system. That again is anecdotal though.

I guess I shout for the next round. Ta. vic

Andy in NH
02-08-2011, 05:43 PM
I should have added that I am now running studded Nokian Hakkapeliittas on the rear and have had excellent results. 'Will pick up a second pair for next winter. As purchased, the sprinter's summer tires look fine - for that. I am used to changing the tires with the season so no big deal here, though mud season may be vicious this year...

jcmadeintheshade@gmail.com
03-27-2011, 09:31 PM
If I am just getting off a paved road in Baja and have miles of washboard ahead is that when I should turn the ASR off for better traction? I didn't last time and all seemed ok until I pulled off into some sand and got stuck. I aired down then and drove right out. I had forgotten to air down when first pulling of the pavement which I sure will in the future. So driving on miles of washboard is it recommended to then turn the ASR off? Thanks to all. Also in the future I plan on having a set of snow chains available to put on in the soft stuff. Does airing down preclude being able to use these? I used to carry pieces of marsden matting, the steel traction pieces to get me out of trouble in my old ford 4 wheel van and one for each wheel 8 to 10 feet long got that old thing out of a hole chassis deep. They were heavy and had sharp edges. I hope to find some in aluminum that I can strap to the roof rack for the next trip. So with the ramps and the chains and the ASR off I can get myself into even more trouble. Would a rear locker be any help if one was available? Thanks to all.

sprinterpard
07-20-2011, 06:26 AM
I don't know about washboard, but when I am driving through bad snow I keep it on until I see a situation where I am likely to have a fatal loss of momentum and /or actually feel the system start to defeat me.

However, I have wondered if having it ripped out would have prevented some oscillating fishtails I had which nearly sent me into the ditch at 90 km/h on a lightly rutted highway with a fine layer of slush over black ice. Every system has its limits. I think it's possible that at some point the minute application of braking to a momentarily spinning wheel could cause a momentary skid on that wheel. I can see ensuing from that a resonance of skidding wheel to skidding wheel with horrifically amplifying fishtailing following.

I have never experienced anything like those slides on or in any other vehicle. They came out of nowhere. I had snow/mud tires on as well. It has made me consider the vehicle not truly reliable for all winter driving, at least around here (central Alberta). I know it has been said, but I will say it again: it is a CRIME that Benz sells the 4x4 version of this in, say FRANCE, and not Canada, where we actually need it!!!!!!!

aadsprinter
07-22-2011, 02:34 AM
It is offered in Mexico too!:wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::yell:
Tosin

hayduke
07-23-2011, 11:19 PM
I don't know about washboard, but when I am driving through bad snow I keep it on until I see a situation where I am likely to have a fatal loss of momentum and /or actually feel the system start to defeat me.

However, I have wondered if having it ripped out would have prevented some oscillating fishtails I had which nearly sent me into the ditch at 90 km/h on a lightly rutted highway with a fine layer of slush over black ice. Every system has its limits. I think it's possible that at some point the minute application of braking to a momentarily spinning wheel could cause a momentary skid on that wheel. I can see ensuing from that a resonance of skidding wheel to skidding wheel with horrifically amplifying fishtailing following.

I have never experienced anything like those slides on or in any other vehicle. They came out of nowhere. I had snow/mud tires on as well. It has made me consider the vehicle not truly reliable for all winter driving, at least around here (central Alberta). I know it has been said, but I will say it again: it is a CRIME that Benz sells the 4x4 version of this in, say FRANCE, and not Canada, where we actually need it!!!!!!!

I dont know anything about sprinters,but on another vehicle I pulled the fuse to the ABS/ESP stability control for snow/ice.I am sure that it not advised,but it did turn it off.