Factory Fill Power Steering Fluid

bobinyelm

Member
After doing a LOT of research, I found that the "Factory-fill power steering fluid" for 2003-2004 Sprinters (Model VA) was MB-341 PS Fluid, but it lists MS-9602 as the "Approved Power Steering Fluid"

It's the ONLY Daimler Chrysler product that shows a different Factory Fill Fluid from the "Approved" fluid.

The Chrysler Crossfire (Model ZH) uses the same MB-341 Factory Fill Fluid as the Sprinter, but it shows the MB-341 as the only "Approved" fluid.

This is an excerpt from the TSB that can be found at the link shown below:

Discussion:
The factory fill power steering fluid for most 2004 model year Chrysler Group vehicles is ATF+4 (MS9602) and it provides superior performance at both low and high temperatures. WJ/WG and ZH vehicles use unique power steering fluids. Refer to the table to identify factory fill and the approved service power steering fluid by year and model. Note that MS9602 is Red in color and MS5931 and MS9933 are Amber/Yellow in color. All three fluids will darken in color with usage and fluid color is no longer an indication of fluid condition.


For the TSB click:
http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2003/19-005-03.htm

Unfortunately, this does NOT tell me what was used in my 2005 Sprinter, but this data may help those of earlier model years select the proper top-off fluid.

I did speak w/ a Dodge Sprinter dealer today, and they said that they were unaware of any need to ever flush/fill for any reason other than contamination by a pump failure, and that the factory fill fluids are lifetime fluids. I am not saying that MB doesn't recommend otherwise, just that Dodge dealers doesn't. The Sprinter dealer said they have been adding ATF+4 to all model year Sprinters, and had no idea what "MB 341" was, despite having access to the TSB.
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Try and convince the real world that fluids are for a life time
As for Dodge ! Why do you think they went broke:rolleyes:
Bevo documents life span of oils:professor: pity the Dodgy brothers:shifty: never bothered to read it.
Richard
 

bobinyelm

Member
I hear you. More Volvo transmissions met their untimely end because Volvo says their ATF is "lifetime" than any other cause.

BTW, on the shudder I mentioned the other day, mine has improved to almost never now. I did find a reference to Power Steering Shudder on a Dodge website, and they said it's due to air pockets in the lines (though how they get there is beyond me).

One Dodge Master Tech suggested adding a teaspoon of Mopar friction modifier or 2 tsps of SAE 75/90 gear oil, saying that cures most shudder conditions. I don't think I will do that, however.

I am still trying to make sure my 2005 fill-fluid was MB-341, then I'll do a flush/refill.

I found it strange that DC filled the 03/04 Sprinters with MB 341, then show ATF+4 (MS9602) as the "Approved" fluid.
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
SPOT THE DIFFERENCE Education
Richard? Re: atf.jpg
If you could post text things as .gif instead of .jpg, they wouldn't get blurry.

thanks
--dick
p.s. condolences re the Ashes, if you care...
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Richard? Re: atf.jpg
If you could post text things as .gif instead of .jpg, they wouldn't get blurry.

thanks
--dick
p.s. condolences re the Ashes, if you care...
The pic was a direct link from MB you can only save it as a Jpeg not as a gif.
England won fair and square they were the better team. We will return,besides there's no where to bury the ashes it's the wet season down under:lol:
Richard
 

djc126

Member
Hi. Has anyone purchased the Pennzoil ATF+4 (5069294) from Ryderfleetproducts?
It is actually made by Shell but there is no info on their website.

A pic of the front and back labels of the bottle would be helpful.

The crossreference is 5013457AA which would might be Chrysler/Dodge ATF+4?

However, this no. doesn't crossreference with an MB p/n (my file is 10/2009).

This particular fluid I haven't been able to find locally.

Thanks.
 

bobinyelm

Member
Hi. Has anyone purchased the Pennzoil ATF+4 (5069294) from Ryderfleetproducts?

It is actually made by Shell but there is no info on their website.

A pic of the front and back labels of the bottle would be helpful.

The crossreference is 5013457AA which would might be Chrysler/Dodge ATF+4?

However, this no. doesn't crossreference with an MB p/n (my file is 10/2009).

This particular fluid I haven't been able to find locally.

Thanks.
According to Chrysler, Mopar ATF+4 is Spec. MS9602, which is indeed Mopar Part# 05013457AA (quart) and 05013458AA (gallon).

So far, I've learned that ATF+4 was NOT the factory-fill PS fluid for Sprinters, though it MAY be compatible for top-off, and is evidently acceptable for complete flush and fill.

I have NOT been able to determine independently that ATF+4 meets MB 236.3 specs (which is required by Sprinters), though one could "assume" it does because Dodge recommends ATF+4 in some literature (but not my 2005 Sprinter owners manual).

At this point, draw your own conclusions.
 
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Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Be aware that from 2005 the fluids have been upgraded by MB .Usually a MB fluid numbering sequence is noted by the last two digits.
Example: Brake fluid DOT4+ originally MB Dot 4 MB A 00 989 08 07 10 progressed to A 00 989 08 07 13... Note: The following digits for 14 are not for Sprinters although many seem to say it's OK..I have reservations on this one.
You need a university degree just to keep up with the changes.:rolleyes:
Richard
 

bobinyelm

Member
I finally wrote MB via their "Contact" email address on one of the sites you sent me.

Their first reply stated that the proper fluid can only be determined using the VIN# of the vehicle, since changes were made as production progressed, and the various fluids may not be compatible (as we surmised). I just sent them my VIN, and it will be interesting to see what they say. My suspicions are that the MB 341 PS Fluid (MB 236.3 compliant) is going to be acceptable.

Thank goodness for "Google Translate," because their reply to my English question was in German.

This has turned into an interesting intellectual exercise!
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
I finally wrote MB via their "Contact" email address on one of the sites you sent me.

Their first reply stated that the proper fluid can only be determined using the VIN# of the vehicle, since changes were made as production progressed, and the various fluids may not be compatible (as we surmised). I just sent them my VIN, and it will be interesting to see what they say. My suspicions are that the MB 341 PS Fluid (MB 236.3 compliant) is going to be acceptable.

Thank goodness for "Google Translate," because their reply to my English question was in German.

This has turned into an interesting intellectual exercise!
Thus as indicated the MB number for sheet 236.3 is standing at A 000 989 88 03 10 YES IT'S WRITTEN IN AUSTRALIAN ENGLISH! NO NEED TO TRANSLATE...TIS ENGLISH :popcorn:
Cheers Richard
 

porkchopl

New member
I have a 2002 Freightliner. In the last 1 year I have changed my power steering pump 3 times due to them locking up. I just finished the third change today. Does anyone have any ideas as to why so many problems? What type of fluid should I be using? Any help would be very appreacitated.
 

bobinyelm

Member
OK, I was going to save this until I received the final version from MBUSA, but...

I recently wrote MB (Germany) an email asking what fluid was safe to ADD to my factory fill PS fluid just to see what they'd say. I explained that my manual said "MB 236.3 spec fluid, and specifically Mobil ATF-D," but that Mobil ATF-D was discontinued and is now Mobil ATF D/M which is NOT MB 236.3.

They wrote back (in German) asking for my VIN # since different VINs used different fluids, and they are possibly not compatible. (see my earlier post up the thread)

I got a reply (this time in English from MBUSA) in which they said I should follow the owner's manual, and scanned the same page I have in my manual, specifying Mobil ATF-D, advising to use that fluid.

I wrote back (biting my lip) reminding them that I had already explained that I HAVE my manual, but Mobil ATF-D is "history." I ALSO explained that my (not-so-local) local Sprinter dealer told me only Mopar ATF+4 is approved, but this should only be used after a double-flush of the factory fluid, but I pointed out that ATF+4 is NOT an MB 236.3 certified fluid as the manual is careful to specify, so wanted clarification.

The final MBUSA reply to date said that they are unable to tell me what might be safe as a top-off fluid, and that perhaps the Dodge dealer "double-flush" is the best policy if the fluid needs ANY adding to get to the proper level. They did NOT address the point I'd made that Mopar ATF+4 is NOT MB 236.3 approved.

My final return email to MBUSA simply asked if MB 341 Power Steering Fluid is OK to use in the system, since it is a 236.3 fluid. They advised that they do not know if MB 341 Power Steering Fluid is safe to use, but that they would submit the question to "engineering" to see if they knew what fluid would be safe to use.

For my money this is one big cluster-flack given the engineering prowess of MB, though in fairness, it's possible no one knows what was actually put into the various model year systems in South Carolina vs. those in Germany.

I DID find a Dodge TSB document stating that MB 341 Fluid was the factory-fill PS Fluid in both 2005 Chrysler Crossfires and Sprinters (ALL other Mopar products were factory filled with OTHER PS fluids), and that MB 341 is the only appropriate top-off fluid for Crossfires, but it showed Mopar ATF+4 as the sole "Approved" fluid for Sprinters. Go figure!

This has gotten almost comical, but given the mention of 3 seized PS pumps, maybe it's VERY serious stuff.

I'll report back if/when Mercedes Benz Engineering gets back to me.

Bob
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Bob read my posts carefully.
This product MB Sheet 236.3 A 000989 88 03 10 Is specifically used for Tins and or sedans leave the last equation of sedans out of it. This product is used globally. Made in Germany Not the United States.
The question is can you get this from a MB dealership or from Europarts?
Richard
.fluids 297 (Custom).JPG

fluids 298 (Custom).JPG

fluids 299 copy (Custom).jpg
 

bobinyelm

Member
I read you perfectly well, thank-you, Richard. No further clarification needed to explain your point.

That fluid appears to be the SAME bottle I found a picture of online somewhere with "MB 341 Power Steering Fluid" printed on it. MB 341 is also mentioned in the DC TSB quoted above.

This is precisely why I wrote MB:

1) To find if this fluid is acceptable (MBUSA says they do NOT know as of now). (Yes, I KNOW it's 236.3 approved)
2) To find if MB USA DOES sell an acceptable fluid (this one or another) for my 2005 Sprinter (I am awaiting MB USA's answer on that).

I know that the Part# you gave is correct for at least SOME late model MBs (see: http://screencast.com/t/hiju66R2kQns ), though this one lacks the Suffix "10" after the 000 989 88 03, though I understand the suffix is just upgrades to the basic part number rather than a "new" or "different" fluid. It says Dexron III ATF (red) is acceptable as a substitute in the MB listing on that MB literature, BTW.

On the other hand a Canadian Forum member claims that same part # (but starting w/ "001" instead of "000") is GREEN ( see: http://screencast.com/t/LigIr0aIs ). I don't know what the prefix signifies.

Since you have established that 5 years is a must-change point for the fluid (The Sprinter dealer disputed this, but I don't take them as the ultimate authority), it looks like I can change to Mopar Transmission Fluid ATF+4 per MB USA email, but I would rather stay with the original factory-fill fluid if I can get it, which is why I wrote MB in the first place to confirm since it's been mentioned here that mixing two MB 236.3 fluids CAN cause problems (I would have thought all 236.3 fluids would be compatible, but what do I know?).

My closest MB dealer is an hour's drive away, so I will call first to see if they have the fluid (after hearing from MBUSA engineering) before spending 2 hours on the road visiting the dealership.

I understand that the product you list is 236.3 approved, but I have still not seen that Part 000 989 88 03 10 is what was used by South Carolina when they filled my PS system.

The shudder I had has disappeared (It was evidently caused by moving my steering wheel slightly w/ the engine not running as suggested by others-who'd have thunk?), so I am in no particular hurry at this point since I am only 1/8" low on my dipstick for the correct fluid temperature).

Right now, it amuses me to see one of the premier motor vehicle manufacturers on the planet trip over their feet on 2 continents trying to answer what would seem to be a fairly simple question.
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Well Bob it somewhat bemuses me too that a country so advanced such as the United States still lives in fairy land which produces products, that are questionable?
The number 000 989 88 03 10 the ,last two digits are the key to current upgrades ,I admit There may be a number increase on this one to say as an example only [11]
An excellent example is Brake fluid MB DOT4+ A 000 989 08 07 13... DOT 4 was 12. DOT3 was 10 the last two prefixes all work on a Tin, they simply upgraded from 2004, A classic was a recant thread of a MB brake fluid produced in the US one it was out of date two there was no use by date it was a yellow label and by the time I traced the origin of the dodgy manufacture they had more fines than you could pock a stick at for non compliance of a certificated product.
Don't expect your service writer to know any better either most would not have a clue let alone a spare barin cell to actually find out Grey mass matter is lacking on this one. Mobil Caltex have the correct fluids but Mobil no states referee to manufactures specification's, good one most folk don't understand the sepc's any way even I get confused at times.

Even dodge had a recall on one fluid 001 with a 07 wrong fluid wrong year, wrong model it cost them to heaps to change and flush the fluids on those vans .
Chime back in with what you find out:bow:..I'd be very interested.
Richard
 

porkchopl

New member
I have a 2002 3500 freightliner that I just replaced the ps pump for the third time in a year. The dodge dealer told me that for my sprinter takes atf+4 for the ps fluid. Can anyone how to flush the lines. I put new trans fluid in it, but there is still old fluid in the lines. Can anyone help with this problem? Thanks.
 

bobinyelm

Member
The factory flush procedure is contained in the T1N Service Manual posted on the Forum.

Yes, the Factory Service Manual says ATF+4 for the 2003 (that's the year of the manual).

The service bulletin TSB I mentioned (see below) also says Mopar ATF+4 is an approved fill fluid (but NOT what the factory fill was at manufacture, which was MB 341 PS Fluid according to the same TSB).

The TSB link was posted on another recent thread here. Here it is again: http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2003/19-005-03.htm.

MB Germany and MB USA don't seem to have answers at hand, but I am awaiting what their engineers come up with. I have a feeling DC and MB Germany didn't talk to each other a lot.

I'd be concerned WHY you've gone through 3 pumps in ONE year. Do you have any idea? Either you are getting poorly rebuilt units, or there's a serious problem somewhere in the system.

Bob
 
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Iggy66

Member
I've been looking into the confusion regarding power steering fluid specifications for the T1N.
From the Mercedes WIS (workshop Information System) it states that fluid to MB 236.3 is NOT suitable below -25C and you should then be using fluid to MB 345.0 specification. This may be why there is confusion, especially between forum members in different countries. In Australia we never get temperatures low enough to warrant anything but the MB 236.3 specification.

Cheers, Iggy66
 

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