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silverstar84
09-17-2010, 06:32 PM
My 2007 Sprinter has a check engine light due to “soot content to in DPF”.
It was thought I could drive it out. I tried and started with a 37g soot content.
It is down to 13g but it should be less than 8g.
Some research has brought some things to my attention that may be helpful for some here.
1st, depending on who you deal with, list price for a new DPF is $3800.00
2nd, used DPF’s are in high demand and hard to get your hands on.
3rd, Dodge informs me that you have to provide your old DPF or Catalytic Converter or be charged a core. Not to be confusing but they do not offer rebuilt they just want the old, I am guessing for the material in them. Freightliner is much less.
4th, on this forum someone mentioned having them cleaned.
I goggled “DPF clean” and found some places.
In my reading I came across a couple of manufactures promoting DPF cleaning machines. They were promoting to Fleet operations and in there pitch the machine cost $20k and they could charge $450 for each clean and how long it would take to pay for it.
Seems they will do anything from a 5inch dia DPF up to a 38inch dia off a crane.
So I started calling all the big fleet operations locally and found a new, state of the art, truck center here in town and they will take walk in DPF cleaning. $475
I am going to give it a try.
5th, I have included some pic’s of my DPF, inlet and outlet.
Everyone that know’s much about these comment on how fragile they are, ceramic.
Around 5% are not cleanable either due to it being cracked, or housing damaged, or so much oil being burned that it penetrates the small openings in the DPF and plug it so bad that it creates a cold spot, I assume this is like an insulation and cannot get hot enough to melt.
Also, if wrong oil is used, as mentioned here on the forum, the metal particles can add to or increase the possibility of not being repaired.
I am taking mine for a cleaning today. Much like waiting for the doctor to call, I hope the news will be good.
Michael

flman
09-17-2010, 09:12 PM
Try a Cummins service center. I was at one a year ago, and they had a sign that advertised DPF cleaning services.:thumbup:

suzieque
09-17-2010, 09:33 PM
I'm guessing dpf cleaning services will become more and more common. How did you measure the soot mass? I have a dashhawk and it shows soot mass, but I'm skeptical about its accuracy.

shanemac
09-17-2010, 11:41 PM
Thanks for the pics its interesting to see what is looks like inside there.

Dodge informs me that you have to provide your old DPF or Catalytic Converter or be charged a core. Not to be confusing but they do not offer rebuilt they just want the old, I am guessing for the material in them.

That sounds crooked...if they want the material in them or any part of the DPF they should be coughing up the money for it...if your buying one outright.

When you go to reinstall DPF will you just use exhaust clamps so it can be removed easier down the road? Also some pics of were you made your cuts in the exhaust would be handy.

Chandlerazman
09-17-2010, 11:50 PM
What happens if you just hollow it out? (Besides belching smoke upon acceleration!) Will it adversly affect the computer? Can the computer be programmed to bypass it?

Aqua Puttana
09-18-2010, 12:53 AM
I once witnessed a plugged catalytic converter from a Dodge van get "rodded out" with a long 1/2" rod and hammer. The ceramic came out in honeycomb chunks. It was just as illegal as gutting a DPF would be. Back then the emisions test was basically a visual "parts in place" inspection.:hmmm:

Actually I doubt there would be excessive belching of smoke. Even ignoring the environmental implications and vehicle regulations, I gotta believe the computer would notice the system changes.:idunno: vic

What happens if you just hollow it out? (Besides belching smoke upon acceleration!) Will it adversly affect the computer? Can the computer be programmed to bypass it?

kendall69
09-18-2010, 01:40 AM
Here in Ca. you now have to go for a smog check on diesel vehicles. I never knew that, but sure enough. I took it in and asked the guy, what the heck are you checking for? He said it's just a visual inspection.

Being ceramic and soot, I'm thinking they have some heavy duty grill cleaner that I've seen them use on the bottom of a badly burnt pan at the fair. Also commercial kitchens have some major grill cleaner stuff. I mean who knows. Before I turn it it in I would experiment on the old one if there are no commercial cleaners.

$3,800.00 buck ARE THEY NUTS, that's half the price of a new engine. Heck it's a deposit on a new one.

silverstar84
09-18-2010, 02:23 AM
I'm guessing dpf cleaning services will become more and more common. How did you measure the soot mass? I have a dashhawk and it shows soot mass, but I'm skeptical about its accuracy.

SDS or Mercedes computer, it wants to see less than 8g.
I would think the SDS or dashhawk or DRPIII computer is reading information gathered from an onboard computer.

silverstar84
09-18-2010, 02:25 AM
When you go to reinstall DPF will you just use exhaust clamps so it can be removed easier down the road? Also some pics of were you made your cuts in the exhaust would be handy.[/QUOTE]

There are no cuts, fancy and user friendly clamps and brackets. Very easy to remove.

silverstar84
09-18-2010, 02:30 AM
$3,800.00 buck ARE THEY NUTS, that's half the price of a new engine. Heck it's a deposit on a new one.[/QUOTE]

Last time I checked, the V/6 diesel engines, used, are bringing $10k.
But still, $3.8K is a budget buster any way you look at it.
The more I read the more I see this becoming more and more needed.
If so, the prices should come down.

silverstar84
09-18-2010, 02:33 AM
Sorry Folks, I foulded up the "Quote" thing on some of my replies.:idunno::hmmm::censored:

Graphite Dave
09-18-2010, 02:35 AM
I am in a zip code in Ca. that does not require smog checks. When my filter is plugged up I hope someone has fiqured out where the sensor is and how to send a signal to mother computer that makes her happy without a filter. At $3800.00 I would have a major incentive to gut it. Without the filter then there would not be a need for an EGR system. We could save the world and increase our mileage which would reduce the amount of hydrocarbons we consumed. I also saw a post that said a new diesel engine was $21,000.00.

Chandlerazman
09-18-2010, 02:37 AM
This 1k mile sprinter was brought in to my servicing dealer for a replacement engine. The owner drove it through storm waters and the result is the engine was hydrolocked. The quote was for $29,000. His insurance is paying for it...


http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z229/Chandlerazman/Sprinterengine2.jpg

Altered Sprinter
09-18-2010, 02:37 AM
Rare metals limited production and competition artificially keeps the price up.
Disposal of a used DPF is very expensive,stick your nose in a DPF and you'll shorten your life span as quick as a DPF as it's one of the worlds most dangerous castigation's.

The DPF will be short lived a its cheaper to redesign the engines for eliminating exhaust gasses via the EGR system.and a serviceable filter disposable egr valve. SCR and DPF are going ad-blue will be retained on some varinats mostly trucks.
Richard

shanemac
09-18-2010, 02:39 AM
There are no cuts, fancy and user friendly clamps and brackets. Very easy to remove.

Thanks...after i posted i went and snooped around under my van and spotted the clamps.

piper1
09-18-2010, 03:55 AM
http://www.trucknews.com/videos/play/?plid=1000370899

This vid shows a machine at work and sort of explains the process. With the price of new, I'd sure try cleaning. BTW, if the dealer wants your old one, they are cleaning it to re-sell it (or MB is). Most OE's are doing this (the re-manufactured program).

kendall69
09-18-2010, 04:59 AM
Long blocks are starting at $7,495
http://www.qualitysprinter.com/sprinter_engines.shtml

Some here at $5,700.00

http://www.theautochannel.com/autoparts/used-enginespartsdodge/sprinter_2500items.html


2007 Dodge Sprinter 2500
Used Engine Good Quality - Low Mileage!

Stock Number: RAD3797487M
Fit: 2007 Dodge Sprinter 2500
Description: Complete Engine Unit
RG-EP
Mileage: 51K
Warranty: 1-Year
Wrecking Yard: Santa Fe Springs, California Yard

$5,628.23

http://www.rebuiltautoengines.com/dodge-sprinter_2500-used_engines.html

SRT
09-18-2010, 06:17 AM
If it were legal to do it, it would be easy to wire around it. The sensor obviously measures the flow and reports back to the ECM. Once it is known what the ECM "likes", the signal could be easily replicated to fool it.

I live in an area where light-duty diesel trucks must pass an emissions inspection. My 2005 registered zero detectable emissions at 320K miles, and on the last inspection at over 400K it registered a 1.5 on a scale where the maximum is 10 to pass the test... and the '05 doesn't have a DPF on it at all.

Soot, carbon emissions... I mean, I'm all for clean air and water, but it's like they're legislating for a goal of zero emissions... and it'll never happen. My '69 Barracuda (500 C.I.D.) probably releases more hydrocarbons through gasoline evaporation when it's siting in the garage; due to the way that the gas caps were designed back then; than any of my high-mileage Sprinters produce when they're running.

punter
09-18-2010, 07:50 AM
If it were legal to do it, it would be easy to wire around it. The sensor obviously measures the flow and reports back to the ECM. Once it is known what the ECM "likes", the signal could be easily replicated to fool it.

I live in an area where light-duty diesel trucks must pass an emissions inspection. My 2005 registered zero detectable emissions at 320K miles, and on the last inspection at over 400K it registered a 1.5 on a scale where the maximum is 10 to pass the test... and the '05 doesn't have a DPF on it at all.

Soot, carbon emissions... I mean, I'm all for clean air and water, but it's like they're legislating for a goal of zero emissions... and it'll never happen. My '69 Barracuda (500 C.I.D.) probably releases more hydrocarbons through gasoline evaporation when it's siting in the garage; due to the way that the gas caps were designed back then; than any of my high-mileage Sprinters produce when they're running.

Zero emissions will occur, possibly through hydrogen as fuel. Allegedly, hydrogen is five years away.

The day will come when people look at hydrocarbon burning the way we look at the stone age or the dawn of the industria l revolution. Primitive. Dirty. Dangerous. Etc......

.

gerrym51
11-12-2010, 08:59 PM
$3,800.00 buck ARE THEY NUTS, that's half the price of a new engine. Heck it's a deposit on a new one.

Last time I checked, the V/6 diesel engines, used, are bringing $10k.
But still, $3.8K is a budget buster any way you look at it.
The more I read the more I see this becoming more and more needed.
If so, the prices should come down.[/QUOTE]


I'm going to be booed but I told you so.(this forum)

NBB
11-12-2010, 09:11 PM
Is this normal? Have you been using the 229.51 oil at 10k intervals? If so, exactly which one? What kind of driving habits - lead foot?

mean_in_green
11-12-2010, 09:17 PM
Yeah yeah yeah we know Gerry!

I've also made a prediction about the durability of my DPF so we'll see how that goes too shall we?!

gerrym51
11-12-2010, 09:29 PM
Yeah yeah yeah we know Gerry!

I've also made a prediction about the durability of my DPF so we'll see how that goes too shall we?!

Simon, i did not predict how long DPF would last. If you look at my previous posts I put in mileage the sprinter manual said it could possibly start at.
starting at 90'000 miles and up.


gerry

Altered Sprinter
11-12-2010, 09:34 PM
Not a single DPF has been replaced or serviced at Mercedes Benz Tasmania since the introduction of the Blessed black hearted Black adder.:lol:
Richard

gerrym51
11-12-2010, 09:36 PM
Not a single DPF has been replaced or serviced at Mercedes Benz Tasmania since the introduction of the Blessed black hearted Black adder.:lol:
Richard


I guess that means something:thumbup:

flman
11-12-2010, 11:45 PM
I guess that means something:thumbup:

I hope it don't just mean they have better fuel then us?

Ovalmaster
11-13-2010, 01:34 AM
Forget cleaning, forget replacing, forget paying. ...... Someone please come up with a DPF DELETE!!!

Every other diesel p/u on the road has this solution available to persons who would like to have it. In my region an emission test for light duty diesels is a $40 cash grab, where they let the vehicle idle and visually inspect it for puffing smoke. If my old 89 diesel jetta could pass it I'm sure my 07 sprinter without a dpf filter sure can. I only have 9000miles on my van and have had the engine light on several times for excessive soot build up. My mileage has also dropped approx. 90-100miles per fill up, and am positive it is partially related to a very restricted exhaust and the thing constantly trying to regen, which we all know throws the mpg out the window. I'm feel confident the increase in fuel mileage and reduced consumption of diesel will more than offset the enviromental footprint of allowing my engine to breath efficiently without such a scrubber/choker in place.

A complete kit would be best. I would not want to wreck a functioning DPF by 'rodding' it out. I would rather have a pipe that is specially made to easily install as the DPF would and still send information to the ecm to prevent the system from trying to regen.

your thoughts please...............

icarus
11-13-2010, 02:08 AM
Forget cleaning, forget replacing, forget paying. ...... Someone please come up with a DPF DELETE!!!

Every other diesel p/u on the road has this solution available to persons who would like to have it. In my region an emission test for light duty diesels is a $40 cash grab, where they let the vehicle idle and visually inspect it for puffing smoke. If my old 89 diesel jetta could pass it I'm sure my 07 sprinter without a dpf filter sure can. I only have 9000miles on my van and have had the engine light on several times for excessive soot build up. My mileage has also dropped approx. 90-100miles per fill up, and am positive it is partially related to a very restricted exhaust and the thing constantly trying to regen, which we all know throws the mpg out the window. I'm feel confident the increase in fuel mileage and reduced consumption of diesel will more than offset the enviromental footprint of allowing my engine to breath efficiently without such a scrubber/choker in place.

A complete kit would be best. I would not want to wreck a functioning DPF by 'rodding' it out. I would rather have a pipe that is specially made to easily install as the DPF would and still send information to the ecm to prevent the system from trying to regen.

your thoughts please...............

If you only have 9000 miles on the vehicle and your fuel mileage has dropped off it sounds like you have a warrantee issue.

gerrym51
11-13-2010, 02:21 AM
Forget cleaning, forget replacing, forget paying. ...... Someone please come up with a DPF DELETE!!!

Every other diesel p/u on the road has this solution available to persons who would like to have it. In my region an emission test for light duty diesels is a $40 cash grab, where they let the vehicle idle and visually inspect it for puffing smoke. If my old 89 diesel jetta could pass it I'm sure my 07 sprinter without a dpf filter sure can. I only have 9000miles on my van and have had the engine light on several times for excessive soot build up. My mileage has also dropped approx. 90-100miles per fill up, and am positive it is partially related to a very restricted exhaust and the thing constantly trying to regen, which we all know throws the mpg out the window. I'm feel confident the increase in fuel mileage and reduced consumption of diesel will more than offset the enviromental footprint of allowing my engine to breath efficiently without such a scrubber/choker in place.

A complete kit would be best. I would not want to wreck a functioning DPF by 'rodding' it out. I would rather have a pipe that is specially made to easily install as the DPF would and still send information to the ecm to prevent the system from trying to regen.

your thoughts please...............

first thought. its illegal. second thought if only 9000 miles insist on cleaning or replacement.

Altered Sprinter
11-13-2010, 06:59 AM
Forget cleaning, forget replacing, forget paying. ...... Someone please come up with a DPF DELETE!!!

Every other diesel p/u on the road has this solution available to persons who would like to have it. In my region an emission test for light duty diesels is a $40 cash grab, where they let the vehicle idle and visually inspect it for puffing smoke. If my old 89 diesel jetta could pass it I'm sure my 07 sprinter without a dpf filter sure can. I only have 9000miles on my van and have had the engine light on several times for excessive soot build up. My mileage has also dropped approx. 90-100miles per fill up, and am positive it is partially related to a very restricted exhaust and the thing constantly trying to regen, which we all know throws the mpg out the window. I'm feel confident the increase in fuel mileage and reduced consumption of diesel will more than offset the enviromental footprint of allowing my engine to breath efficiently without such a scrubber/choker in place.

A complete kit would be best. I would not want to wreck a functioning DPF by 'rodding' it out. I would rather have a pipe that is specially made to easily install as the DPF would and still send information to the ecm to prevent the system from trying to regen.

your thoughts please...............
How much are you willing to pay for a DPF fix:2cents:
Richard

Ovalmaster
11-13-2010, 02:04 PM
1)No warranty....

2)I'm not afraid of the DPF police....

3)$350-750 off the top of my head would be reasonable

van hunter
11-13-2010, 04:35 PM
Try a Cummins service center. I was at one a year ago, and they had a sign that advertised DPF cleaning services.:thumbup:

Can you direct me to a discussion of engine comparisons, strength, mileage, service life, fix it costs and other stuff.

I would appreciate and help. Thanks much.

Van

Altered Sprinter
11-13-2010, 09:39 PM
1)No warranty....

2)I'm not afraid of the DPF police....

3)$350-750 off the top of my head would be reasonable
Sorry No sale. :smilewink:
Richard

jdcaples
11-13-2010, 10:51 PM
1)No warranty....

2)I'm not afraid of the DPF police....

3)$350-750 off the top of my head would be reasonable

The price point, and the potential customer base doesn't justify the research, development and marketing for NAFTA Sprinter NCV3 DPF delete.

We're talking hundreds of hours of research, programming, testing, development equipment, the potential need to reset an ECU back to factory specs.... it costs a lot of money to do something like this and I think nearly everyone of us NCV3 diesel owners would have to cough up $750 to make the venture break even.

-Jon

Graphite Dave
11-14-2010, 02:19 AM
Does anyone know where sensors are located, how many and what they are sensing? I would suspect two sensors, one before filter and one after. (I have not looked) The two sensors probably detect the pressure differential through the filter. If the pressure differential was eliminated by gutting the filter, the computer would think it was clean. If you are not afraid of the DPF police, eliminating the filter would be a better solution than $3800.00 for a new one. I know this is not an enviromentally acceptable solution. Let all the Prius owners pick up the slack. Since the Sprinter can not be put on a dyno, a suspect the only thing they can do is look at the parts. Make it look stock and you are probably OK.

piper1
11-14-2010, 02:38 AM
If you remove or gut the DPF the back of your van would be a very sooty mess, the DPF is there for a reason, to clean up the dirty unholy combustion mess created by the EGR system. The smog police know that DPF equipped vehicles will have fairly clean exhaust pipes, if you gut it, they will soot up in short order.

DPF's can be cleaned, or exchanged for clean ones...give it time...the aftermarket will finally believe there is enough money in exchange DPF's.

Paying for a new one is nuts, unless it is physically damaged there is no need...ever.

We need an EGR delete first.

Altered Sprinter
11-14-2010, 02:47 AM
Does anyone know where sensors are located, how many and what they are sensing? I would suspect two sensors, one before filter and one after. (I have not looked) The two sensors probably detect the pressure differential through the filter. If the pressure differential was eliminated by gutting the filter, the computer would think it was clean. If you are not afraid of the DPF police, eliminating the filter would be a better solution than $3800.00 for a new one. I know this is not an enviromentally acceptable solution. Let all the Prius owners pick up the slack. Since the Sprinter can not be put on a dyno, a suspect the only thing they can do is look at the parts. Make it look stock and you are probably OK.
Sprinters most criminally can be Dyno tested.
Problem is how you go about looking at it with out cost now think first in line before the DPF EGR and SCR how are you going to get around this one.! without star diagnostics.?
Just a brief as to Values for setting via your ECU for Rpm and speed signal requisitioning.

EGR: Temperature differences between exhaust gas and coolant.
SCR: Compressed air sensor,measure value of SCR to ECU values of the compared air-sensor.
Unit pump cylinder: Smooth ideal control limit within limit adjustments.
1.2.3.4.5.6 single cylinder adjustment within limits. Now look at how the video works with the temperatures as to the DPF, and in part the above is a fraction of the programing involved.

Mercedes-Benz "Particle Killer" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUOhqqyu3RY)
Richard

Graphite Dave
11-14-2010, 02:48 AM
It would be interesting to see how much soot would be produced. Would you be able to see the difference? Someone should try it to see what actually happens. You are right, get rid of the EGR valve first.

Altered Sprinter
11-14-2010, 02:54 AM
It would be interesting to see how much soot would be produced. Would you be able to see the difference? Someone should try it to see what actually happens. You are right, get rid of the EGR valve first.
No Dave the EGR valves stays, but alter the EGR for cooling but get rid of the SCR.Then sue the EPA.
YouTube - DPF - Diesel Particulate Filter Cleaner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSFUbVUzFII&feature=related)
Richard

Graphite Dave
11-14-2010, 03:22 AM
I do not understand what you are saying. Would I face jail time? Your video does show two pressure taps that look at the pressure through the filter so eliminating the pressure differential would keep mother computer happy. The question is how much soot would be visually seen.

Altered Sprinter
11-14-2010, 04:04 AM
I do not understand what you are saying. Would I face jail time? Your video does show two pressure taps that look at the pressure through the filter so eliminating the pressure differential would keep mother computer happy. The question is how much soot would be visually seen.
Sorry I was not being specific deliberately.

AIOH POSITION PAPER Diesel Particulate and Occupational Health Issues (http://www.aioh.org.au/downloads/documents/PositionPapers/AIOH_DieselParticulatePositionPaper.pdf)
Basically you would poison yourself including others.
The DPf failure is a EPA mandate that never committed to their end of the deal with emissions. Legally they do not comply at your end of the world , so DPF failures if the wrong fuel and oils are used, guarantee premature issues in cold climate or extreme high climate temperature zones..
However you can't remove the filter as to in part of what I have said ECU will not accept the removal and will place you in a LHM EDC will ignite and you will shut down prematurely.
Engine damage is very likely.
The problem in part is cold temps with fuels that just do not have enough high cetane values. or the correct additives for lubricity added to offset the soot as to a higher fuel ignition burn.

Canada is good example and I belive the Midwest is heading for early winter snow storms.
Oil should be 0-40 0-50 always, if operating in these temperature zones. The solution is dual fuels.
However disconnect and find out for yourself, you won't like the end result. the two open lines from the exhaust , well block them off, or connect as in-line.
I think you will find it's more than it's worth in the end game. without an expensive Annalise.
Richard

Graphite Dave
11-14-2010, 04:24 PM
Hopefully I will not be faced with a $3800 cost for a DPF so would not do anything. If I did, how would the computer know I had gutted the filter? All it would see is no pressure differential and I would think happily go about its business. Would the lower back pressure cause a problem? I am obviously not educated on the DPF design but would like to understand how it works. Can anyone explain in laymans terms how this design functions. From what I have read, the system cleans itself when a high differential pressure is sensed by emitting high temperature exhaust to burn out the soot. How does it do this? What does the EGR valve do? Seems one thing an owner can do to protect the filter is be sure the correct oil formula is used. I would also suspect using a Scan gage to keep the LOD indicator below full load would reduce the amount of soot produced and thus reduce the contamination of the filter. Correct?

piper1
11-15-2010, 01:19 AM
Hopefully I will not be faced with a $3800 cost for a DPF so would not do anything. If I did, how would the computer know I had gutted the filter? All it would see is no pressure differential and I would think happily go about its business.

The ECM would know you gutted it based on 2 things, 1) there being no pressure differential across the DPF and 2) the exhaust pressure sensor near the EGR cooler would also register parameters it would not expect to see

Would the lower back pressure cause a problem? Other than it confusing the hell out of the ECM there would be no mechanical problems.

I am obviously not educated on the DPF design but would like to understand how it works. Can anyone explain in laymans terms how this design functions. From what I have read, the system cleans itself when a high differential pressure is sensed by emitting high temperature exhaust to burn out the soot. How does it do this?The ECM modifies fuel injection timing, closes the swirl valves partially (like little throttle valves in the intake), turns on the glow plugs, and a couple of other things to create a very rich combustion environment. This blast of poor combustion (unburnt/partially burnt fuel) enters the Diesel Oxidation Catalyst (the DOC) and it causes it to get very hot, the resulting exhaust temps exiting the DOC are nuclear enough to cause a burn out of almost all the soot in the DPF

What does the EGR valve do?The EGR system introduces cooled exhaust gasses back into the intake of the engine to lower the combustion temperature to control Oxides of Nitrogen (NOx) a smog causing pollutant. This results in very crappy combustion that requires a DPF to clean up, otherwise there would be considerable soot and smoke coming from our tailpipes. I have seen 2007 EPA rule diesels running with the DPF removed, it is less than clean.

Seems one thing an owner can do to protect the filter is be sure the correct oil formula is used. I would also suspect using a Scan gage to keep the LOD indicator below full load would reduce the amount of soot produced and thus reduce the contamination of the filter. Correct?An occasional good romp actually helps things out, hot exhaust equals fewer ECM triggered soot burn outs (active regenerations) as the DPF will get hot enough on its own to partially do it by itself (passive regeneration).

knighty
11-15-2010, 02:01 AM
could be worth removing it compleatly and then taking it for a quick drive ?

(wihout gutting it, bypassing etc.... just go without it - a bit like a very short exhaust)

just to see if it runs, see if it goes into lhm etc. etc.

suzieque
11-15-2010, 03:23 AM
Your video does show two pressure taps that look at the pressure through the filter so eliminating the pressure differential would keep mother computer happy.

in the case of my 2008 Jeep 3.0L CRD, the DPF automatically does a regeneration every 700 miles or about 1200 kilometres, regardless of the pressure differential. My guess is the OM642 in the Sprinter operates the same way.

Graphite Dave
11-15-2010, 03:29 AM
After a bit more reading, it seems DPF filter removal would work in the short term but then the mother computer would determine that a regen had not occurred and put you in LHM. She is a very persitant bitch.
All the DPF elimination kits available for standard pickups include a software patch to prevent the regen LHM. With the low sales of Sprinters, I doubt anyone would invest the effort to make a kit for the Sprinter.
The real problem here is the $3800 for a new one. Why the filter should cost about 8% of what the vehicle original cost was sounds like robbery. If the government wanted us to remain good boys, then they should have made the manufacturers sell replacements at their cost.

jdcaples
11-15-2010, 04:16 AM
in the case of my 2008 Jeep 3.0L CRD, the DPF automatically does a regeneration every 700 miles or about 1200 kilometres, regardless of the pressure differential. My guess is the OM642 in the Sprinter operates the same way.

My Sprinter regenerates every 700 miles or so. The Jeep 3.0L CRD is powered by some variant of the OM642 family (there are over 20 OM642 variants in the NAFTA region). I haven't bothered to look at the pressure differential. There are regeneration requirements to be met.... basically, you have to be at a certain engine RPM and some operational temperature (I think I read that once), before a passive regeneration will execute.




-Jon

gerrym51
11-15-2010, 05:10 PM
After a bit more reading, it seems DPF filter removal would work in the short term but then the mother computer would determine that a regen had not occurred and put you in LHM. She is a very persitant bitch.
All the DPF elimination kits available for standard pickups include a software patch to prevent the regen LHM. With the low sales of Sprinters, I doubt anyone would invest the effort to make a kit for the Sprinter.
The real problem here is the $3800 for a new one. Why the filter should cost about 8% of what the vehicle original cost was sounds like robbery. If the government wanted us to remain good boys, then they should have made the manufacturers sell replacements at their cost.


dpf filters are made from minerals classed as rare earths. these are much more expensive than common elements(also mostly controlled by the chinese).

suggest you try to find reasonable cleaning.




also the rest of the world is 90 percent diesel 10 percent gas(reverse of usa). you will get relatively little help here.

NBB
11-15-2010, 05:18 PM
I'm still wondering what oil was being used here.

There appears to be a DPF available in another recent post where a guy is scrapping out an 08 Sprinter.

gary 32
11-15-2010, 06:42 PM
A good tuner can write in egr and dpf delete, legal, no.
Then there are products like this that really any good muffler shop can fab...


Particulate Filter Bypass Pipe

Milltek Sport Media File for Volkswagen Golf Mk5 GT 2.0 TDI 170PS DPF (2004 and later)

This is the downpipe that removes the particulate trap on the Volkswagen Golf Mk5 GT TDi 170 models. The boost this gives to the responsiveness and driveability of the car has to be experienced to be believed!

donblume
11-16-2010, 02:07 AM
[QUOTE=kendall69;106437]Long blocks are starting at $7,495
http://www.qualitysprinter.com/sprinter_engines.shtml

Some here at $5,700.00

http://www.theautochannel.com/autoparts/used-enginespartsdodge/sprinter_2500items.html

I'm sure even a new complete engine will not include the DPF.
Don

gary 32
11-16-2010, 03:41 PM
It would be interesting to see how much soot would be produced. Would you be able to see the difference? Someone should try it to see what actually happens. You are right, get rid of the EGR valve first.

Hey Dave,
I read some of this thread.
Egr and dpf delete are not hard or expensive to achieve with a willing tuner and a bolt in straight pipe.
What you would have is a trip backwards to the era of dirty diesels complete with visible soot clouds that everyone objects to, for references read the tdi or a duramax forum.
A better way is to use a loader and a tune with egr defeat. Do not ask the tuner you chose to discuss this in an open forum. The motor runs clean, no egr problems, the dpf properly disposes of the soot and you are legal.
If the van needs to go to the dealer or a smog test you simply reload the stock program and the dealer or smog center has motor parameters they recognize.

rayl
11-16-2010, 04:05 PM
Has anyone tried a forced regen ? my sprinter had a forced regen at its last 2spanner service and the result was :thumbup:, now i am not saying the dealers are liars, but, the dealer service dept where i brought the van from new told me on my second service for the one spanner service that my dpf would need replacing when i get up to 100,000 miles, costs would be around £1000, my response was over my F'n dead body you rip off gits, any way i took my van to a ex sprinter mechanic (who we both know simon, mean in green) and this guy knows his stuff, he did the 2 spanner service then we went out and did a forced regen, you need the mb comp equip obviously, but the result was as said thumbs up dpf fine and cleared, now to add to this he services sprinters that have 200,000 & 300,000 on the clock with still the same dpf, and the soot results are within spec just like mine is, so, come on who,s conning who,
Some one on this post said his regen's about every 700 miles, mine does about every 500 - 600 miles, sometimes sooner depending on how i drive and at what speeds i have been doing, the van has always done this from new, the forced regen is not the same as normal regen which the vehicle does its self in between services.

Now there might be folk who will read this post and roll their eyes, but, reflect on this, since this mechanic has been loking after my van my mpg has gone up, the van has run better, it starting better, he found a loom under the air filter that was chaffing and about to cut through the wire's,(maybe you should check your looms) he also found sump bolts lose and one broken,a leaking rear diff, and a few other minor problems, but, bare in mind all these faults and probs two previous so called "mb dealers" that i have used for service from new have failed to find (read what you will into that), but, they were very very good , in fact brilliant at taking my hard earned cash for work i will say has not been carried out to the book, but what makes it worse is these faults would have come to their climax when its to late, and guess who picks up the bill.

I had my original brake pads replaced by this mechanic 2 weeks ago my old pads had done 113,000 miles and still had a little meat on them (yes 113,000 miles) thats an indication of how i treat my van (with care) but, this mechanic did something that i have never ever seen done by any other garage or mechanic except myself and that was he cleaned the faces where the wheel sits against the hub and lightly copper slipped the hub where it fits over the flange, belive me this helps if ever you have to change a wheel on the roadside and the wheel has not been off for a long time.
To end with i will say exactly what i told a mb's agent that rang me some time back to find out what i thought of the service i have had in the past from mb dealers, i quote " as long as my arse has a hole in it never never will this or any other motor i own go into a mb's workshop unless i have no control on where the vehicle has to go , ie, breakdown or warranty work which i pray never happens".

So the question is, are dpf's being changed by dealers or others when in a lot of cases there was no need ? i know i am £1000 beter off at the moment and more than likely will be in another 100,000 miles,
sorry post so long but had to voice this piece
ray

jdcaples
11-16-2010, 10:42 PM
Has anyone tried a forced regen?

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12538
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12204


If someone can convince me it won't shorten the life of my NAFTA system's DPF, I can run a forced regen on my van and report results.

-Jon

suzieque
11-16-2010, 11:46 PM
one thing I will comment on is that from posts I've read from an MB mechanic, it's important to have your DPF get to an optimum temp during day to day usage. I believe many diesel owners, especially those new to diesels, and non-Sprinter owners run them like gassers. Short trips to pick up milk, long idle times etc.
I have a Dashhawk monitoring the DPF temp, and I put my front grille inserts on to restrict air flow and help ensure the DPF gets >500 fahrenheit.
Some folks will preach drive it hard! Yes, that does increase the DPF temp, but it doesn't mean that is the only way to get it up in temp.

Just my 2 cents about DPF life span and the issue of clogging.

piper1
11-17-2010, 01:19 AM
Has anyone tried a forced regen?

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12538
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12204


If someone can convince me it won't shorten the life of my NAFTA system's DPF, I can run a forced regen on my van and report results.

-Jon

Re-gen away Jon......you would need to do hundreds of forced re-gens to shorten the life. I would caution you against doing more than 2 in a row though, the heat, if not allowed to dissipate possibly could cause cracking of the DPF internals...which would only mean it would have a small built in partial bypass..................just sayin.

shanemac
11-17-2010, 01:32 AM
A hot diesel is a clean diesel.... I can monitor cat temps as well crawling all the hills around hear and putting load on the engine there is a nice bump in cat temps usually from around 400 f up to 550-600f. When mine is re genning i'am not shy to get some revs up to help spit out the trash in the DPF during this time my cat temps are close to 1200f for 10-14 mins. Even after the reg is done if i can i get on the open road and let things breath a bit. Also idle times are i keep to 10 mins or less especially when the engine is cold. My regens have been occurring about 1200kms apart as of late.

suzieque
11-17-2010, 04:54 AM
I bought a daimlerchrylser 3.0l diesel repair student guide. Here is some info on the DPF, most of this has already been discussed or provided in various threads:

The DPF uses a silicon carbide wall-flow monolith with a platinum coating to trap particulates. The monolith contains a large number of square parallel channels, which run in the axial direction and are separated by thin porous walls. The channels are alternatively open at one end, but plugged at the other. The exhaust gases flow through the walls and escape through pores in the wall material. Particulates, however, are to large to escape and are trapped in the monolith walls. The ECM starts the regeneration of the DPF if the soot load exceeds a performance map value. The ECM determines the load condition of the DPF. A pressure differential sensor provides the pressure input to the ECM. During the regeneration process, the ECM raises the temperature in the DPF to burn off the soot accumulated. Under normal operation, the engine does not produce enough heat to oxidize the soot inside the DPF. This process requires temperatures above 1022 fahrenheit. The ECM activates the following inputs to generate more heat and increase the exhaust gas temperature:
- EGR throttle valve
- Injectors for post injection
- Glow plugs

The ECM uses the DPF differential pressure sensor along with many other inputs to monitor the state of the exhaust emmission system. The (ECM) will set DTCs and may illuminate the MIL to alert the driver of faults within the system.

rayl
11-17-2010, 04:58 AM
Hi Jon,
i know from your past posts that you know a lot and talk a lot of sense and digest info letter by letter so what i have wrote next is just info and a reminder and not to try and teach anyone to suck eggs........ please dont do a forced regen when not moving, that exhaust gets really really hot, it will need air rushing past to keep the area around it cool and most likely stop the thing from going on fire.......

Mine was done out on the road and had to keep the revs up past 2000 rpm and i could smell the exhaust more so than when it regens its self, plus the crap in there came out, but bare in mind my sprinter is a 311cdi 2008 vintage, a four pot with manual six speed, not a v6 automatic which i belive most of you over there have.

With ref to what you said about being convinced it wont shorten your dpf life, that i dont know for sure jon, but, if you do decide to do it the figures might make interesting reading.

If my vehicle had of gone into the sprinter dealer for its last service then as sure as god made little green apples the merc dealer would have rung me and said the dpf needs replacing and no sir a forced regen would'nt help as its totally blocked and past its sell by date as they say over here, plus, as i said i would be the £1000+ lighter in my bank account but dealer bank account up £1000+, so, from my point of view i had nothing to lose by my mechanic doing his stuff, some thing else that comes into the equation here with dealers is that they dont make much money out of warranty work but they sure as hell do with the out of warranty work, and guess what dpf are not warranty at the mileage we are on about, maybe on smaller mileage but i still would'nt hold my breath on that one.
I think dealers pray on the unknowing customers, and sadly these customers are at the mercy of these outfits as they have the upper hand by saying it could affect your warranty if so and so is not replaced or repaired sir, with the dealer knowing full well it is bull sht, but they have figures to meet and will anyway they can.
You dont need many dpf's to make a tidy proffit do you?????

jdcaples
11-17-2010, 05:43 AM
Hi Jon,
i know from your past posts that you know a lot and talk a lot of sense and digest info letter by letter so what i have wrote next is just info and a reminder and not to try and teach anyone to suck eggs........ please dont do a forced regen when not moving, that exhaust gets really really hot, it will need air rushing past to keep the area around it cool and most likely stop the thing from going on fire.......

Mine was done out on the road and had to keep the revs up past 2000 rpm and i could smell the exhaust more so than when it regens its self, plus the crap in there came out, but bare in mind my sprinter is a 311cdi 2008 vintage, a four pot with manual six speed, not a v6 automatic which i belive most of you over there have.

With ref to what you said about being convinced it wont shorten your dpf life, that i dont know for sure jon, but, if you do decide to do it the figures might make interesting reading.

If my vehicle had of gone into the sprinter dealer for its last service then as sure as god made little green apples the merc dealer would have rung me and said the dpf needs replacing and no sir a forced regen would'nt help as its totally blocked and past its sell by date as they say over here, plus, as i said i would be the £1000+ lighter in my bank account but dealer bank account up £1000+, so, from my point of view i had nothing to lose by my mechanic doing his stuff, some thing else that comes into the equation here with dealers is that they dont make much money out of warranty work but they sure as hell do with the out of warranty work, and guess what dpf are not warranty at the mileage we are on about, maybe on smaller mileage but i still would'nt hold my breath on that one.
I think dealers pray on the unknowing customers, and sadly these customers are at the mercy of these outfits as they have the upper hand by saying it could affect your warranty if so and so is not replaced or repaired sir, with the dealer knowing full well it is bull sht, but they have figures to meet and will anyway they can.
You dont need many dpf's to make a tidy proffit do you?????

Thanks, Rayl.

I can do the forced, active generation at highway speeds (for a few more weeks/months, at least) and, to tell the truth, I won't be doing it until traffic, weather and confidence all align in favor of my doing this.

-Jon

PS: as for warranty, unless someone tells me they'll repair it under warranty, I will take my own risks and share my Sprinter with no one, esp under the restrictions of a warranty agreement. I hate joint custody. I bought it. It's mine. If MB or FL want to fix it for free, fine. If they won't, I'll do it myself, or cough up the dollars to get it done properly. I will not be blackmailed by threats of warranty nullification. That goes against my prinicples in a grinding way that inspires rage and irrational reactions resulting in my abandoning all relations with the would-be blackmailer. Screw business policies that support a position that they can tell me how to run my Sprinter, that places restrictions on the way I use it. It's mine.

I'm smarter than most service writers and I will not be a bully's victim.

I paid a hefty price to learn proper maint and repair techniques. I will not make waste or mock the tuition I've paid to learn what I need to know to keep my Sprinter healthy; to learn what I can do and what should be hired out.

Warranties are joint custody agreements that heavily favor the manufacturer. I want a little part of them as possible, within economic reason. It is not worth trying to hold a manufacturer to their contract, to me. Others disagree and have won... I'm not willing to put up a fight.

My life and emotional comfort are way more improtant than challenging bureaucracy and policies.

Altered Sprinter
11-17-2010, 05:45 AM
Has anyone tried a forced regen?

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12538
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12204


If someone can convince me it won't shorten the life of my NAFTA system's DPF, I can run a forced regen on my van and report results.

-Jon Jon You will obtain different results on multiple tests 5 of.
I have again looked in with Saba/learning distance training at the manuals
SAE International Fuels and lubrication for soot control for forced regeneration of a DPF.
28094
28095
Tests.
Flow control:
Soot generation rate.
Soot generation.

Fuel Compatibility: Diesel mix 10%-Bio-diesel recommended Not Corn stock base.
Soot Rate repeatability: +/-20% (plus Fuel regeneration burn rate.
{Note: Bio Diesel reduces soot output}

Temperature control: Feedback control via electric heating in loading modes.
Uncontrolled Temperature in regeneration.mode determined by Fuel and airflow set-points.
-Use thermocouples.
Axillary user.
Analogue inputs: 2 16 bit-10+10v Bosch-Q RT-Midtroincs; Logged in DAS data control.
Data Logging .
Safety Systems. Temperature v fire.
Accuracy DPF: Flow measurements.Temperature measurements.
DPF Back pressure measurements.
Ambient Condition ideal: 5-40 Celsius cooling air inlet.
Temperature:-20-40 Celsius Das via signal acquisitions International codes.
Control functions:Remote Global sabra/web control logging via PC Ethernet.
automatic control according to preset program for unattended operation.
automatic provision of test results reports.
V6 U.S 2010 Blackstone analysis report. compare right hand side for universal evaluations.


28096
Current 229.51 E8/9 SAE Acea soot control range for International standards..2008/9
28099
U.S needs to be aware [Especially Canada] of 0W-40 and or 5W-40 MB 229.51 oils for reduction of soot control for a particulate filter.
28098
Richard

jdcaples
11-17-2010, 06:09 AM
Richard,

I'm not sure what you're saying. I can assure an ambient temperature of between 5-40 Celsius. I also can assure less than, or equal to 5% biodiesel from soy stock.

I can also assure between 2 and 5 microns of filtration at nominal fuel delivery pressure.

The way I read your posting, these are the requirements cited in your post, minus the condition of MB SDS/DAS. All I have is StarMOBILE and WiTECH. This package does fine with my Sprinter, insofar as I can tell.

If I need to buy MB SDS, it's a deal killer. I won't pay betwen 25% and 50% of the cost of my Spritner new for a scan tool that has limited ultility for me and the few Sprinter owners I know in the neighborhood.

-Jon

Altered Sprinter
11-17-2010, 06:32 AM
Richard,

I'm not sure what you're saying. I can assure an ambient temperature of between 5-40 Celsius. I also can assure less than, or equal to 5% biodiesel from soy stock.

I can also assure between 2 and 5 microns of filtration at nominal fuel delivery pressure.

The way I read your posting, these are the requirements cited in your post, minus the condition of MB SDS/DAS. All I have is StarMOBILE and WiTECH. This package does fine with my Sprinter, insofar as I can tell.

If I need to buy MB SDS, it's a deal killer. I won't pay betwen 25% and 50% of the cost of my Spritner new for a scan tool that has limited ultility for me and the few Sprinter owners I know in the neighborhood.
Hi Jon same here the cost is not worth it ..But Dam I'm getting tempted to do it next year for my own curiosity .
Thought you might like the brief insight of what can be found within MB, and it's partners .


-Jon
When you follow what MB is doing in Europe it gets interesting as to what is available and how the packages come together.
My point is the theories showing on the forum are going to get someones Sprinter blown up.
I'm hoping the new forum in the new year will allow for a better format on archival information.to be sourced.
Cheers Richard

28100

Altered Sprinter
11-17-2010, 12:12 PM
Flowing up with the regeneration of forcing of the DPG
28101
28102
28103
Accuracy:
DPF Flow Mass=5%of reading over 100kg/h
Temperature measurement =1C =1% reading.
DPF Back Pressure: 0.05 m bar =1% reading.

Monitoring Systems: Specifications DPG AV 415 [smokemeter] can be mounted on the DPG drawing in power from the DPF;or on-line measurement of the DPF inlet soot concentration and filtration efficiency.
Sequencing of the monitoring system measurements:: Is controlled by the DPG control software,and calculation and reporting of measured soot load and filtration is automatic.
Measurement Principle: Filter paper blackening.
Measurement Cycle-time: 13 seconds -120 seconds.
Measurement of penetration measurement: Measurement at low concentration requires longer times.
Maximum Efficiency: 99.8%.
communication with PC serial RS232.
Note: Stand alone MB software for maximum clearance of the DPF will achieve only 85 to 89% clearance efficiency.without the assistance of the DPG and online software.

Leak tests with thermocoupling are fitted inside of the DPF filter.[NOTE]: I have not included the tests charts as this would not likely be available via a standardized MB service outlet.
Looking at a replacement DPF at U.S Dollars the cost of a refurb of 700 dollars is fair concidering the cost of the machinery for cleaning and with deep burial of HazChem material waste, or high burn incinerators.

The cost comparison from Europe should be in the USA; for an new, or reconditioned to OEM or exceeding OEM specifications. The DPF should be U.S $2500 with an exchange core. plus fitting etc.
The chart below shows a 903 series 2006 Fitted with the DPF a few made into Australia, just prior to the introduction of the NCV with a standard DPF fitted.

28104
2009 Euro5/2010 Euro 5 EEV Euro 6 optional /2011 Euro 6 Oil has now changed to meet both emissions requiremnts through to 2016
The question is how to keep the NAFTA Sprinters from blockages.
28105

Richard

gary 32
11-17-2010, 02:05 PM
My point is the theories showing on the forum are going to get someones Sprinter blown up.

Richard is right.

The posts you never see on duramax forums are the little egr/dpf experiments gone wrong.
Unless you have acquired all the information required to alter your Sprinter's operating parameters don't mess with them and then bitch here.
Even installing a simple tune can wreak havoc on your vehicle and you better be ready for this.

gerrym51
11-17-2010, 02:22 PM
North America does not have the support structure for diesel that the rest of the world has. just a fact.

rayl
11-17-2010, 02:31 PM
Hi Jon,
I admire your ps part of the posting, thats my thoughts as well, the trust that i ever had for mb dealers has gone and will never come back for me and this will be reflected when i next come to buy a new van for my business. ray

scootr29
11-23-2010, 10:44 PM
Back to the OP...did we see any results from the air cleaning or did I miss it?????

Also does anyone know if my 2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee has the same sized DPF as the Sprinter?

Kid347
11-25-2010, 06:17 PM
Question, My wife drives a 2007 ML 320 CDI Diesel. Mostly she drives it to work which is 2.1 miles from home. truck only has 32000 miles. We just starting noticeing that when we get on it especially when driving on the highway we smell burnt rubber. Could this be the DPF clogging from such short slow trips?

thedeerhunter302
11-25-2010, 09:58 PM
when you clean the dpf, they clean it two ways. they will burn it from front to back to make sure that all the soot comes out. they also force air pressure through it to push any loose soot out. when they are done cleaning it it is almost like new. if you let the vehicle idle alot then it will load up quicker. are you sure that the add blue system is working correctly. if the system is working correctly it should clean itself. sometimes you will get build up on the tip of the injector. but being your truck is a 07 i dont think it uses urea. anyways it is cheaper to clean than replace and the truck would not notice the diffecence once it is clean. hope this helps.

pat
sprinter tech.
ford diesel tech.

Altered Sprinter
11-25-2010, 10:12 PM
when you clean the dpf, they clean it two ways. they will burn it from front to back to make sure that all the soot comes out. they also force air pressure through it to push any loose soot out. when they are done cleaning it it is almost like new. if you let the vehicle idle alot then it will load up quicker. are you sure that the add blue system is working correctly. if the system is working correctly it should clean itself. sometimes you will get build up on the tip of the injector. but being your truck is a 07 i dont think it uses urea. anyways it is cheaper to clean than replace and the truck would not notice the diffecence once it is clean. hope this helps.

pat
sprinter tech.
ford diesel tech. Welcome to the forum :clapping: NCV 2010 N/A is the only Mercedes sprinter with AD-BLUE.However idling or driving at low ambient temps can block a DPF due to unburnt fuels. or poor quality fuels below 47 Cn with out refinery added upper cylinder lubricants.
Richard

suzieque
11-25-2010, 11:17 PM
Question, My wife drives a 2007 ML 320 CDI Diesel. Mostly she drives it to work which is 2.1 miles from home. truck only has 32000 miles. We just starting noticeing that when we get on it especially when driving on the highway we smell burnt rubber. Could this be the DPF clogging from such short slow trips?

most likely, the DPF is trying to clean itself, but the short trips are not allowing adequate time for the process to complete, so every time you do the short drive, the clean only get started and you smell the starting, then you shut down.

my advice would be a reasonable, 30 mile run on the highway, don't need to go faster than the speed limit, just a constant speed, no idling.

the other issue may be a leak of oil, mercedes calls is it a leak near the "Intake Port Shut off Motor". you can search the mercedes forums about that.

gigitty
02-14-2013, 02:28 PM
I have a 04 sprinter with limp mode issues as well. I replaced the resonator and the egr valve and still same problem, all hoses are fine and tight. I do not get an engine light, but if I scan it I get ERG circut range/ preformance code. My buddies shop said next step is to the dealer for new computer unless they can reprogram the old one.

If you shut off the engine and re start, you will get 2 revs at full power then right back to limp mode and a max rpm of 3k with little power.

Does the 04 have a DPF? Could this be the problem

It usually takes me 2 or more tries to clear the egr code, but it comes back right away. If i clear the code while engine Idling, I get full power for 2 revs again, then back to limp.

I bought this truck used with 180k on it and now has 250k. No problems until now.:thinking:

GreenDiesel
02-14-2013, 03:06 PM
Your 2004 Sprinter is not equipped with a DPF. What is the P code? Could be electrical if the valve was just changed.

jdcaples
02-14-2013, 03:52 PM
Please consider starting another thread in the T1N (2002-2006) area for help t-shooting this 2004 Sprinter problem.

-Jon

jdcaples
02-15-2013, 09:24 PM
The pictures of that filter medium...

It looks like something responsible for Honey Bee Colony Collapse Disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_collapse_disorder).

-Jon

kendall69
02-18-2013, 08:43 AM
By my math I've done plus or minus 750 hours of idling. 180 School days where I wait to pick up my daughter 1 - 1.5 hrs on ea. school pick up day, running Air Conditioner from Feb - Sept, running heat from Oct - Feb. SO 2007 and it's now 2013 that's 5 years, 180 days, lets say 150 days give or take. 150 hours times 5 years gives me 750 hours of idle time. More waiting for the wife shopping, etc. but a solid 750 hours. Use Mobil oil, Use redline fuel treatment, and use , Miltec-1 on every oil change.

Ro3bert
02-18-2013, 01:32 PM
2011 144 high top. Used for Oversize Load escorting. CAT weight slightly over 6500lbs so lightly loaded. Turned 60,000 miles (yesterday).

Highway speeds can be as high as 75MPH but usually 50 to 60 all long distances (250 to 300 miles) but have done 500 to 600 miles a day. On hills with heavily loaded trucks (over 100,000lbs) speeds can be as low as 12 to 20MPH.

My question is: how do I know when a regen/cleaning is going on? :thinking: I've never smelled anything or seen smoke out the rear.

Robert

sailquik
02-18-2013, 02:28 PM
DPF regens are stored in the ECM memory, and the MB SDS can pull up when they have occured.
I wouldn't worry about it if your engine is still performing well.
I sure hope you are downshifting along with the big load trucks you are leading/following when you slow down to 12-20 mph.
I'd be locked in 2nd gear (maybe even 1st gear @ 12 mph.
Running along at very low revs up hills leading/following at those speeds would surely cause more low engine RPM soot issues
than manually downshifting and keeping the revs up in the 2400-2800 range.
Roger

Ro3bert
02-18-2013, 03:51 PM
DPF regens are stored in the ECM memory, and the MB SDS can pull up when they have occured.I wouldn't worry about it if your engine is still performing well.

Not worried just curious.

I sure hope you are downshifting along with the big load trucks you are leading/following when you slow down to 12-20 mph.
I'd be locked in 2nd gear (maybe even 1st gear @ 12 mph.
Running along at very low revs up hills leading/following at those speeds would surely cause more low engine RPM soot issues
than manually downshifting and keeping the revs up in the 2400-2800 range.
Roger

Tried shifting down manually but the engine temp (UltraGauge) was going as high as 230F and fuel mileage reduced considerably. Letting the van decide when to down shift made all the difference in the world though on steep hills with the heavy loads it still appraches 210F.

I've had zero problems with the Great White, still pleanty of power, starts quickly, shifts up and down as it sees fit (unlike others who have complained about the lack of down shifting). The only time(s) I down shift manually is when coming to a stop (I hate using the brakes) or somtimes when going down hill and the truck is going slowly.

I guess I should amend the last paragraph. Three problems: two oil level sensors replaced and one O2 sensor all under warrentee.

Robert

Old Crows
02-19-2013, 10:22 PM
Had a code P0544 pop up for the second time two weeks ago. Picked up Mariah from Boerne Benz this afternoon after replacement of up stream O2 DooDaah, a manual DPF regen (too clogged to auto regen), and a $386 US bill.

Lot Jocky drove her up and parked it and when I went to leave it wouldn't crank. A tech came down and we got it to start. His opinion was the battery was down. Put it on my charger when I got home... 45 mile /50 minute drive and the battery was only 12.5V at 84% charge. (proof again that alternators don't fully charge badly depleted batteries)

I asked the tech about preventing DPF problems. "It's OK to idle... But you have to drive it." Lots of idling, like stop and go deliveries, aren't recommended with lots of idle time and little road work is not kind to the DPF. FEDEX vehicles are giving them a fit..... OK nothing new here except he said just driving at normal speeds is sufficient to clean it under normal conditions.

Assuming you are using 229.51 oil and limited idling, could poor quality fuel (higher than allowed sulphur) be the root cause?
(Asking because once in awhile I get rotten egg smell from my Toyota.... Then it goes away with a new tank,of gas.)

Old Crows
02-19-2013, 10:28 PM
.

My question is: how do I know when a regen/cleaning is going on? :thinking: I've never smelled anything or seen smoke out the rear.

Robert

Good question... I've not noticed anything different, weird, noise, smell, clag in 9500 miles. But maybe Mariah wasn't doing a ReGen because of the sensor problem... :idunno:

gary 32
02-19-2013, 10:42 PM
Had a code P0544 pop up for the second time two weeks ago. Picked up Mariah from Boerne Benz this afternoon after replacement of up stream O2 DooDaah, a manual DPF regen (too clogged to auto regen), and a $386 US bill.
Lot Jocky drove her up and parked it and when I went to leave it wouldn't crank. A tech came down and we got it to start. His opinion was the battery was down. Put it on my charger when I got home... 45 mile /50 minute drive and the battery was only 12.5V at 84% charge. (proof again that alternators don't fully charge badly depleted batteries)
I asked the tech about preventing DPF problems. "It's OK to idle... But you have to drive it." Lots of idling, like stop and go deliveries, aren't recommended with lots of idle time and little road work is not kind to the DPF. FEDEX vehicles are giving them a fit..... OK nothing new here except he said just driving at normal speeds is sufficient to clean it under normal conditions.
Assuming you are using 229.51 oil and limited idling, could poor quality fuel (higher than allowed sulphur) be the root cause?
(Asking because once in awhile I get rotten egg smell from my Toyota.... Then it goes away with a new tank,of gas.)

So you paid 386.00 for an oxygen sensor that should have been warranty and they killed your battery for you free of charge.

http://youtu.be/M8VtAwkRGeA

Old Crows
02-19-2013, 11:00 PM
So you paid 386.00 for an oxygen sensor that should have been warranty and they killed your battery for you free of charge.

http://youtu.be/M8VtAwkRGeA

Out of warranty...regrettably. But did have extended coverage for Good Sam. Bill would have been higher!

mykes
02-20-2013, 01:47 AM
Good question... I've not noticed anything different, weird, noise, smell, clag in 9500 miles. But maybe Mariah wasn't doing a ReGen because of the sensor problem... :idunno:

Me as well! 15,000 km all is well so far. But can someone answer the how can you tell when it's in regen mode please.

woodwrights
02-20-2013, 04:46 AM
We have a 2008 cargo van. I may be in for a world of hurt....as of two days ago I am in Mexico and cannot get ULS diesel. I have only run two tanks of LS diesel so far but I am certainly worried. I have Scangauge II installed but I have not searched for info related to DPF or EGR yet. We just went over 25,000 on the odometer and will not be back to US until about 28,000. I am mostly (Mexican) highway driving. I have never noticed a regeneration.

Is there anything you can suggest that I should do short of turning around to not damage the engine and make it home next month. I am scared of LHM!

Thanks for the help! I will try to get to wifi to check the progress on this thread.

Ken
Whitefish, MT now near Puerto Vallarta, Mexico.

RMWise
02-20-2013, 05:46 AM
Ken, your 08 does have a DPF as far as I know. I believe they started that with the 2010 MY. I'm not sure what effect, if any, higher sulfur fuel will have on your van as it shouldn't have the SCR (catalyst) either.

Maybe it was the SCR and urea that I was thinking of...

slsbl77
02-20-2013, 09:20 AM
We have a 2008 cargo van. I may be in for a world of hurt....as of two days ago I am in Mexico and cannot get ULS diesel. I have only run two tanks of LS diesel so far but I am certainly worried. I have Scangauge II installed but I have not searched for info related to DPF or EGR yet. We just went over 25,000 on the odometer and will not be back to US until about 28,000. I am mostly (Mexican) highway driving. I have never noticed a regeneration.

Is there anything you can suggest that I should do short of turning around to not damage the engine and make it home next month. I am scared of LHM!

Thanks for the help! I will try to get to wifi to check the progress on this thread.

Ken
Whitefish, MT now near Puerto Vallarta, Mexico.

You do have a DPF, the first appeared in the US in the 2007 model year.
I would try to "improve" the quality of the fuel by adding Power Service Diesel Fuel treatment or equivalent and idle as little as possible. If it acts up find an MB dealer and ask for a manual regen.

Good luck to you, Bob

gary 32
02-21-2013, 10:18 PM
We have a 2008 cargo van. I may be in for a world of hurt....as of two days ago I am in Mexico and cannot get ULS diesel.
Is there anything you can suggest that I should do short of turning around to not damage the engine and make it home next month. I am scared of LHM!
Thanks for the help! I will try to get to wifi to check the progress on this thread.
Ken
Whitefish, MT now near Puerto Vallarta, Mexico.

The obvious answer:
Remove that dpf put it in a safe place in your Sprinter.
Have a muffler shop make you a straight pipe with bungs using your dpf as a pattern, bolt up the pipe, reattach the sensors, run anything pemex throws @ you.
When you get back in the US you decide...

jdcaples
02-22-2013, 02:09 AM
http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=228356&postcount=28

mykes
03-05-2013, 12:39 AM
Me as well! 15,000 km all is well so far. But can someone answer the how can you tell when it's in regen mode please.
???? nobody?

OrioN
03-05-2013, 12:44 AM
???? nobody?

from MB Service:

=============================================


CAUSE:
Fuel enters the engine oil because diesel particulate filter(DPF) regeneration is aborted several times - engine is switched off by driver or regeneration is aborted by engine control system due to insufficient temperature in the exhaust system.
Note: Certain operating conditions (e.g. frequent short distance driving, large amounts of idling) favor repeated DPF regeneration aborts

REMEDY:
Avoid frequent short distance driving and/or large amounts of idling. Perform a major drive (freeway or highway) lasting at least 20 minutes approx.. every 500 kilometers (300 miles) to support DPF regeneration.

If this problem occurs, perform a premature oil service and carry out manual DPF regeneration.

Inform the customer accordingly about the technical circumstances.



=============================================

Graphite Dave
03-05-2013, 02:12 AM
Interesting. The thing can destroy its engine with extra fuel without ever telling the owner that a problem has occured. Good engineering? I think not. Sad.

Seems I have been corrected by Orion. Apparently it does indicate a problem. All these sensors and CEL lights would not be as annoying if the elecrical designers had provided a readout that gives a code number and a brief explanation of the problem and its location. The onboard computer knows what the problem is so why not display it. A loose air hose clamp required a tow truck on my Sprinter. I could have fixed it in 5 minutes if I had any idea what the problem was.

OrioN
03-05-2013, 04:37 AM
Interesting. The thing can destroy its engine with extra fuel without ever telling the owner that a problem has occured. Good engineering? I think not. Sad.

...sorry to burst your bubble there dave, but...

the CEL & other warning lights will be on at this point, from a number of triggers.





.

mean_in_green
03-05-2013, 08:50 AM
???? nobody?

You can't hear it?!

This has come up before - some owners are in no doubt a regeneration is taking place whilst others aren't.

Maybe the different engine types have their own nuances such that some make regenerations more apparent than others. It is very distinct with my OM651: the idle revs increase a couple of hundred RPMs, the exhaust note changes, there's more heat than normal on the exhaust side of the van.

jdcaples
03-05-2013, 12:17 PM
If you can't hear regeneration happen (I can't, but I have a cargo van with the factory partition, lined with factory felt that blocks sound really well).

Some people install consumer grade OBD readers that display exhaust gas temperatures. When they rise significantly, it's a safe bet that the engine control module is doing the regeneration thing.

You could have found this with a search, which in part probably explains why you didn't get a direct response.

-Jon

mykes
03-08-2013, 02:28 AM
You cant hear it? What should i hear? Thats what i"m asking.I to have a cargo With a partition and the back is full of tools making there own sounds. Maybe that's why i don't hear regen,but i might if i new what to listen for.I found this thread with the search and thought i might find the answer hear.The van gets worked hard and i don't idle a hole lot,also no real short drives.Thanx
Myke

OrioN
03-08-2013, 03:53 AM
You cant hear it? What should i hear? Thats what i"m asking.I to have a cargo With a partition and the back is full of tools making there own sounds. Maybe that's why i don't hear regen,but i might if i new what to listen for.I found this thread with the search and thought i might find the answer hear.The van gets worked hard and i don't idle a hole lot,also no real short drives.Thanx
Myke

I can hear mine... but, in ideal conditions... what I hear is entirely from the exhaust system... it becomes 'growly' or 'throaty' on acceleration... but only audible at low speeds and no large ambient noise (road, radio, traffic, etc). that's it.





.

hksnlper
04-27-2013, 09:43 PM
I have a 07 Sprinter Cargo Van with a little over 212k Miles, Recently changed the engine with a 55k mile engine because the last one was torn apart by dealership and never put back together ( long story ) I have the DPF issue. truck is constantly throwing DPF regen codes and puts it in limp mode. What is the best option for me. EGR is new and Frankly I am tired of DPF so should I delete it period. What are your thoughts

T.J.T
04-28-2013, 02:15 AM
I can hear mine in my 2008. It makes the exhaust note much deeper. I can also see on my Ultragauge when this is happening because the EGR flow does not change and sits at 4.31%( Ive never seen it at 0 flow rate so I assume the 4.31 is 0 just the sensor gives me a very small number). After about 10-20 minutes of driving the flow rates will begin to change and the Exhaust sounds of a higher note.

I also can watch the coolant temp go up to around 195-199 (yet to see it break 200C)

texas.dallas
05-03-2013, 09:56 PM
I have a 2011 passenger config. I can never tell or hear Regen! It has 20k miles.

HSS
05-03-2013, 11:58 PM
I heard mine once since I rarely drive my rig. It sounded like a faint deep throttle and the second o2 sensor temperature goes up to 1200F otherwise normal temps are 450-650F on the Torque app.

EATEMRAW1
10-01-2014, 04:28 PM
How do you get your Sprinter to regen on command?:thinking:

lindenengineering
10-01-2014, 05:36 PM
How do you get your Sprinter to regen on command?:thinking:

Take a suitable scanner that can see MB Pids & programmed as such to actually do a re-gen (de-soot) .
Scan vehicle and eradicate any engine codes that may be present by fixing them properly , not trying to fudge them. Continual auto re gen in service won't work if faults are stored or faults present.

On a road test select Re-gen application and follow the prompts, once the command is accepted drive the vehicle at a moderate speed maintaining exhaust temp which is usually seen at about 650 dgc.

At a point determined by the PCM the command will be overidden and a completion of re-gen signal will appear on the scanner.
Easy! Well the last bit anyway!
Cheers Dennis