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View Full Version : Motor Oil, the OM642, Mobil 1 ESP, Standard MB 229.51


jdcaples
05-19-2007, 03:12 AM
In the "Essential Sprinter Parts List" that Seek was so kind to promote to "sticky" ( Thank you, Seek ) is

68001334AA Engine oil 5W30 ESP (low ash), 3.0L diesel (required)

The OM642, 3.0L V6 diesel engine requires oil that conforms to specification MB 229.51 or MB 228.31.

This is to protect the DPF. I'll say it again: This is to protect the DPF.

I checked with the service departments of two local dealerships this week, regarding oil used in Sprinter maintenance.

The service writers I spoke with both informed me that Mobil Delvac 1 was what they use for Sprinters, regardless of year.

Mobil Delvac 1 is MB 228.5 compliant.

The Freightliner Owners Manual (page 351) specifically says not to use MB 228.5 oil in the 3.0 L V6 in quantities greater than one (1) quart and only when there's no alternative.

The above "essential" part number's description is suspiciously similar to "Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40 - Emission System Protection," but the weight is obviously different.

What is important: according to

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_ESP_Formula_M_5W-40.asp

This product - weight difference aside - is MB 229.51 compliant

and, most importantly

this product is specifically mentioned in the Freightliner Owners Manual for 2007, First Edition, Page 351.

I finally found an online source, for this oil:

http://www.avlube.com is the ingress point to the web content

The product is detailed here:

http://store.avlube.com/mo1espfom5wc.html


-Jon

Altered Sprinter
05-19-2007, 05:46 AM
Hi Jon I'm going over old ground as to Australia being one up on models years etc.
US and Euro oils are different the Euro oils have always had higher quality specs, as opposed to the lesser US oils which only just pass the US requirements if they do at all.
The new low ash oils were released in 2005 and they were hard to obtain outside of Europe for 12 months, I had to import mine from Europe as to it being a Euro model, the oil is designed as a synthetics oil to hold lubricity at higher temperatures, which the new V6 performs on due to the total redesign of the engine, it also allows the formula to permanently suspend particles on contamination with in the oil itself with out settling into the oil filters and pumps which cause oil sludge and total engine failure life span of oil changes are extended as a result of this oil with the magic formula .
It is in three grades one for Standard exhausts the particulate filter as a low ash oil the size of waste particles going back through the exhaust fro regenerating is a much smaller particle as opposed to the older waste oils and the soot that was produced.
My favorite quote [OILS AIN'T OILS and neither are the FILTERS]
being told by a rep we use the same devalac oils between models new and old shows total contempt and responsibility towards a Customer who in most cases is ill informed and places trust in the dealer ship fro advice its totally wrong to say the old oil is OK , when the new 3Ltr engine does require the higher properties of the new low ash oils,
There are three of these oils however as the US has to worry about one only we will stay with this Mobil low ash oil specifically designed for the VW and Mercedes Commercial vehicles in Europe.
Included is my old favorites for alternative oils available in the states, we have many threads on this most members have read it or at least are aware of it,.
Now that the new Sprinters are starting to circulate the interest and question as to the above of Jon's is showing up again.
Its a good thing that we have this forum , as it grows stronger it will attract newer members who will be seeking answers as to whatever question may appear in the course of time.
Mercedes-Benz Engine Oil Recommendations (http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html)

Damed if I'd trust a dealer ship ever, they are there to serve their own interests not the customers.
Richard2007 Diesel Regulations - Environmental Irresponsibility? Mostly Mechanical (http://autoengineer.wordpress.com/2006/10/23/2007-diesel-regulations-environmental-irresponsibility/#comment-5)
ZDDP OLDER ENGINES - Topic Powered by eve community (http://forums.noria.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/616604995/m/3011052071)

jdcaples
05-19-2007, 07:13 AM
Included is my old favorites for alternative oils available in the states, we have many threads on this most members have read it or at least are aware of it,.
....
Now that the new Sprinters are starting to circulate the interest and question as to the above of Jon's is showing up again.
Its a good thing that we have this forum , as it grows stronger it will attract newer members who will be seeking answers as to whatever question may appear in the course of time.
...
Damed if I'd trust a dealer ship ever, they are there to serve their own interests not the customers.


Thank you Richard, for your support, experience and your guidance.

I was in a store yesterday and noticed they stocked Amsoil's MB229.51-compliant product. I asked how much was sold. It's the slowest-selling item in the store. Once that supply is exhausted, it won't soon be replaced until someone asks for it.

Responsible stewardship of something as complicated as the NCV3 is impossible without access to decent nexus of information, accurate, cited, sussed, debated and verified.


What fun this is!

-Jon

jditom
06-14-2007, 05:12 PM
I am now a prefered costomer for Amsoil and I bought 2 cases of there European 5/40W Amsoil's MB229.51-compliant product.
Instead of $90/case its $65/case:thumbup:

http://www.lubeoilsales.com/preferred_customer_memberships.htm

http://www.lubeoilsales.com/products/afl.htm

verojohn
06-15-2007, 12:25 AM
Who else uses the Amsoil here? I'm on the fence and like the ease of ordering it on line.

Also, where is the best place to order oil filters and what size for a 2007 Dodge?

Thanks in advance.

Altered Sprinter
06-15-2007, 12:35 AM
Who else uses the Amsoil here? I'm on the fence and like the ease of ordering it on line.

Also, where is the best place to order oil filters and what size for a 2007 Dodge?

Thanks in advance.
BUY IT it's the slowest selling oil on the shelves amsoil has, but thats only because no one has needed it in quantity YET.
They have an excellent reputation for quality oils.
PS the oil is not Mercedes certified, but as Mercedes have said we can't test every oil alternative and they concentrate on Euro oils mostly because they have a higher value than US oils, which is true.
amsoil is a good product.
PS search back on oil threads, there ARE= MANY LINKS OF REFERENCE TO THE COMPANY.
Richard
Latter thought I'D love to have be able to gt hold of a sample of thier upper cylinder lube to run a carbon, and flame test to see if it's any better than the opposition
Dam not in Hobart though and NO I don't want to be a dealer of the product

jdcaples
06-15-2007, 06:51 AM
BUY IT They have an excellent reputation for quality oils.
PS the oil is not Mercedes certified,
Richard
I'D love to have be able to gt hold of a sample of thier upper cylinder lube to run a carbon, and flame test to see if it's any better than the opposition



Amsoil European: I saw a dozen quarts on the shelves of a NAPA Autoparts store near Seattle, WA USA today. That makes two retail outlets that have it on the shelves as of today in this area.

The writing on the back of the bottle says, "MB 229.51."

Does that mean Mercedes did test it?

Or does it mean Amsoil is guessing that it would pass a specification test?

Or does it mean Amsoil is likely just falsely advertising their specification?

As for Amsoil upper cylinder lube, are you referring to this product?

https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/adf.aspx

or another Amsoil addititive?

-Jon

Altered Sprinter
06-15-2007, 07:09 AM
Amsoil European: I saw a dozen quarts on the shelves of a NAPA Autoparts store near Seattle, WA USA today. That makes two retail outlets that have it on the shelves as of today in this area.

The writing on the back of the bottle says, "MB 229.51."

Does that mean Mercedes did test it?

Or does it mean Amsoil is guessing that it would pass a specification test?

Or does it mean Amsoil is likely just falsely advertising their specification?

As for Amsoil upper cylinder lube, are you referring to this product?

https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/adf.aspx

or another Amsoil addititive?

-Jon Jon
The MB oil ratings I placed further up in the post would be July last year for oils MB did test for the MB ratings of certification
I am not aware amsoil has it from MB itself :idunno: Their Chemists would have matched the specs with a quality product I am positive of it, IF there is any information that pertains to as a reference it will state Euro specs U.S specs have a lower standard , if the latter is stated , that is per-say it complies to Fed U/S specs then the oil does not match the Euro specs, basically one would have to see the tests of data comparison matches etc.
I know they are pretty fussy about the product range.
Yes the last link of the additive was the one I was interested in but most companies don't include a carbon test or Fame test for emissions etc
Simple test to achieve the visual eye test to both, to determine how reactive the product is with carbon prints and the flame test also is an indicator , it keeping the NOx levels down
The only one I have ever seen that actually shows the test is used for the US Government they put additives in everything, shows how much they trust the oil, and fuel sort of double standards :thinking: on that one but it's the same down under as well:smilewink:
It's no big deal but as you know I'm curious some additives are no good some are , some are meant for the new engines from 2000 on-wards some are just junk. I don't think amsoil is though.
Richard

verojohn
06-15-2007, 01:06 PM
Not that the manual is everything but...my 2007 manual states that if the oil has any combination of the specs listed, it's approved. One of the specs for the 3.0L diesel is MB 229.51 and if the Amsoil has it, it would be Okay....I think....

Altered Sprinter
06-15-2007, 02:06 PM
OK Why don't I pm them and ask for their Representative of amsoil to give us some information :clapping:
We have a forum that is growing, if we as a forum of members united as one group, are asking questions! 'As to is it! or is it not OK? Oil in this case.

Then why not go to the source to find out. amsoil is an independent group not easy in this day and age when large corporate body's plays games with the public and don't tell the truth, So my thoughts are Lets ask and get them to give us some data, so we can make up our own minds it will serve our purpose of unanswered questions, it's a good PR for amsoil where a win win situation may eventuate.
IMPO I believe that amsoil is a leader in quality production for oils in the USA I have read both stats and the sometimes provocative statements they have made towards Both the fed regulations and towards larger companies Quote altering products to comply to a very old basic set of standards that are out dated by world ISO standards each of us as individuals have investments in assets of vehicles, some of us rely on these vehicles to sustain a living from , and they need the best protection we can give the vehicles for longevity well after the warranty expires ,
Oils ain't oils and neither are the fuels.
What are your comments towards us asking amsoil for a commentary.
'The Members Call'
Richard.

jdcaples
06-15-2007, 05:40 PM
OK
...
What are your comments towards us asking amsoil for a commentary.
'The Members Call'
Richard.


I'm think it's a fine idea.

What's the next step?

-Jon

verojohn
06-15-2007, 06:05 PM
OK Why don't I pm them and ask for their Representative of amsoil to give us some information :clapping:
We have a forum that is growing, if we as a forum of members united as one group, are asking questions! 'As to is it! or is it not OK? Oil in this case.

Then why not go to the source to find out. amsoil is an independent group not easy in this day and age when large corporate body's plays games with the public and don't tell the truth, So my thoughts are Lets ask and get them to give us some data, so we can make up our own minds it will serve our purpose of unanswered questions, it's a good PR for amsoil where a win win situation may eventuate.
IMPO I believe that amsoil is a leader in quality production for oils in the USA I have read both stats and the sometimes provocative statements they have made towards Both the fed regulations and towards larger companies Quote altering products to comply to a very old basic set of standards that are out dated by world ISO standards each of us as individuals have investments in assets of vehicles, some of us rely on these vehicles to sustain a living from , and they need the best protection we can give the vehicles for longevity well after the warranty expires ,
Oils ain't oils and neither are the fuels.
What are your comments towards us asking amsoil for a commentary.
'The Members Call'
Richard.

Here is what Amsoil says they cover, you might ask in a "group question" if they've been tested by MB. I'll call and ask if that helps unless someone has an in at Amsoil. Please note that the verbiage says gasoline and doesn't include diesel?

From the Amsoil site:
Meets or exceeds the following specifications for domestic and foreign gasoline engines:

API SL, CI-4, CF
ACEA A3, B3, B4
BMW LL-01/98
Daimler Chrysler 229.3, 229.4, 229.5
Opel Long Life Service Fill GM-LL-A-025
Opel Diesel Service ill GM-LL-B-025
Porsche
Volvo
Saab
Volkswagen 502.00, 505.00, 503.01

verojohn
06-15-2007, 06:10 PM
Also note above that it's 229.5 and not 229.51 as the manual states is acceptable.

ctmcdaniel
06-15-2007, 06:17 PM
One thier web site they use both references to 229.5 and 229.51 for the same product depening on what page your on.....

I did not see anything about it's ash content though.

Tom

jdcaples
06-15-2007, 08:15 PM
The 2007 Freightliner Owners Manual discusses oil requirements.

-Jon

Altered Sprinter
06-16-2007, 01:13 AM
Looking at the specs provided by Joh
Thinking at the very bottom of the page the photo shows the old 228 one is for the particulate filter the other is for bluetec units, I'll check that out tonight as I'm not 100% on it
Reasons 4 cylinders and V6 in gas and Diesel all have a different operating tempurture:thinking:
Richard
2178

verojohn
06-16-2007, 12:58 PM
The 2007 Freightliner Owners Manual discusses oil requirements.

-Jon

That is exactly the Dodge Sprinter manual right down to the exact same page.

Altered Sprinter
06-16-2007, 01:48 PM
That is exactly the Dodge Sprinter manual right down to the exact same page.
Jon I knocked that photo clip from your manual :smilewink:
OM 642 engine
228.51 is for euro 1V engines bluetec with particulate filters
229.31 is a lower grade oil as to the low ash longer extended life oils for the OM 642 DE 30LA engine euro 1V as the Dodge specs don't match to the euro engines then you have an older passenger car V6 from the 2002 E35 Mercedes passenger cars and they have a lesser EGR fuel system that does comply to euro 3 US specs bin 2 We have to find out what Diesel engine is in the US Sprinters
Richard
2189
Re=checking between all 228 oils:thinking: 228.51 definitely not recommended for Sprinters in the US
2190

Altered Sprinter
06-17-2007, 07:00 AM
Correct paper filters recommended by MB for both 229.5 and 229.51 oils.
Note: this specifcation is from MB USA, not Dodge
Richard
2206

ctmcdaniel
06-17-2007, 03:53 PM
Richard

I have the general impression that the filter will be fleece not paper.

Tom

Altered Sprinter
06-17-2007, 04:24 PM
Richard

I have the general impression that the filter will be fleece not paper.

Tom
Tom, Fleece oil filters, are part of the Mann Hummel group! its the standard paper type filter The particular one quoted is for both OM 642 De 32 LA and OM 648 engines.
Problem is the Dodge one is for 2003 OM 642 V6 and it's not qualified for this particular filter with the second generation EGR fuel systems
My year 2005 is as far back as you can go for this filter with the DPF
The problem we have is which engine is the new Sprinter running on it's not a OM 642 as MB is rating it a OM 648 and that's where the question really begins, what is in the Sprinter.
Richard

jditom
06-18-2007, 07:52 PM
Here is what Amsoil says they cover, you might ask in a "group question" if they've been tested by MB. I'll call and ask if that helps unless someone has an in at Amsoil. Please note that the verbiage says gasoline and doesn't include diesel?


So I just bought 2 cases of Amsoil AFL and it states on the back of the quarts. MB 229.51

http://www.lubeoilsales.com/products/afl.htm

Should be OK to use???????

Altered Sprinter
06-18-2007, 11:58 PM
So I just bought 2 cases of Amsoil AFL and it states on the back of the quarts. MB 229.51

http://www.lubeoilsales.com/products/afl.htm

Should be OK to use???????
Yes
Richard

jdcaples
06-19-2007, 05:32 AM
So I just bought 2 cases of Amsoil AFL and it states on the back of the quarts. MB 229.51

http://www.lubeoilsales.com/products/afl.htm

Should be OK to use???????

Amsoil has a good reputation amongst the technicians I know personally.

AFL's chief appeal to me is that it's available more readily than any other products sporting that magic character string, "MB 229.51" and those two data points are compelling.

It's also less expensive than the less-readily available "Mobil 1 ESP" which help convince me that I'll probably run Amsoil.

I'd love to see a physical demonstration of how the two products handle high-temperature, high stress - main bearing-ish - tests.... but I have not been able to find one.

Richard, what testing methodologies would you employ against the two oils, Mobil ESP and Amsoil European - ex vitro - to find out which one is likely the superior candidate for use?

-Jon

Altered Sprinter
06-19-2007, 06:35 AM
Jon
Your going to laugh you head off on this one, HONEST:lol:
Field tests when we were in the Middle East and the USA last year
Place two identical lids 6" apart place an equal amount of oil in each.
The area needs be be still AND FREE OF TURBULENCE. Light both oils at the same time, no more than three seconds apart, and time the burn out period,to see which one, burns out first.
Second visual test, see how dense the carbon smoke is, compare between the two, in width and height, and density of the smoke and color.
Said you would laugh.
As the product [OIL] is of a lower flame intensity, you may need to add a [NATURAL] wick in each, as the point! for starting the ignition of the flame.
Do not use synthetic materials. [WICKS]
At the end of the process look at the lids, each of them! there will be a carbon foot print left behind,each should be as similar as the other.
If you can get the same results between the two brands, then amsoils conforms to a standard of testing, that is the bench mark for chemical Annaliese, to an ISO or US standard! OK it sounds crazy:wtf: but it works 8 out of ten times, we normally did three tests to get the average for we were looking for.
Don't breathe the smoke or fumes , it's highly acidic.
You may say what does this prove! If the same ?the temperature is the key to how long the flame holds, same as your engine different oils and filters give different results.
No comments please from the peanut gallery , The above is a standard Field test for the US Military so there:tongue:
Apart from that get Blackstone to test it for a more exact result.
Richard

Sprinter
10-23-2007, 10:53 PM
Hey guys, is this the oil You are talking about?

So far my dealer was using Mobil1 ESP 5W-30 (even though manual says 5W-40) but I would switch to amsoil and change it myself, can I use it? manual says nothing about it

lildevildee
10-24-2007, 02:34 AM
I haven't read the entire thread but it seems like it's a standard debate that happens over at tdiclub.com. Amsoil is not approved on VW's oil spec list for TDIs even though the bottles are marked with VW spec. approval. *IF* you have any engine problems and have been running Amsoil, good ol' VW will deny warranty. However, from what I have heard, Amsoil is VERY good about backing their products.

For all of you you are complaining about the stealers using the wrong oil, why not change it yourself? It took me about an hour and a half doing a topside change. I pulled out 12l, replaced the oil filter and oil, and filled up with some Elf oil. Crawled underneath to make sure everything was good and called it a day. I went a bit slow on this change since it was the first and dealing with 12l of oil makes things a bit interesting since my tallboy only holds 6l and the Pela only holds 5l :)

Altered Sprinter
10-24-2007, 02:35 AM
What you have chosen is a better and more to the point correct value of oil to use on the Sprinter with a PDF.
15-40W also is a recommend oil for H/D use . this oil is for extend oil changes. Note: Not in your manual. but with research via Benz corporate partners it shows up with Fushe oils and the schedules as to what works best, for your applications.
Richard

Sprinter
10-24-2007, 04:32 AM
I haven't read the entire thread but it seems like it's a standard debate that happens over at tdiclub.com. Amsoil is not approved on VW's oil spec list for TDIs even though the bottles are marked with VW spec. approval. *IF* you have any engine problems and have been running Amsoil, good ol' VW will deny warranty. However, from what I have heard, Amsoil is VERY good about backing their products.

For all of you you are complaining about the stealers using the wrong oil, why not change it yourself? It took me about an hour and a half doing a topside change. I pulled out 12l, replaced the oil filter and oil, and filled up with some Elf oil. Crawled underneath to make sure everything was good and called it a day. I went a bit slow on this change since it was the first and dealing with 12l of oil makes things a bit interesting since my tallboy only holds 6l and the Pela only holds 5l :)


OK, changing oil is easy but how did You reset service miles counter on the cluster?
At dealership they connect it to their service computer and I was told You can't do it without it...

Sprinter
10-24-2007, 04:46 AM
What you have chosen is a better and more to the point correct value of oil to use on the Sprinter with a PDF.
15-40W also is a recommend oil for H/D use . this oil is for extend oil changes. Note: Not in your manual. but with research via Benz corporate partners it shows up with Fushe oils and the schedules as to what works best, for your applications.
Richard

I am sorry Altered, I just want to make sure I understand right. Which one do You mean is better, Mobil or Amsoil?
Amsoil I have on the picture from NAPA is not "European car formula"

jdcaples
10-24-2007, 04:55 AM
I am sorry Altered, I just want to make sure I understand right. Which one do You mean is better, Mobil or Amsoil?
Amsoil I have on the picture from NAPA is not "European car formula"

Both the Amsoil "European Car Formula" and the HD Diesel should be fine. The product you cite is also DPF-friendly, and I'd be comfortable with it.

"European Car Formula" has MB229.51 printed on the bottle. I bought enough for two oil changes already, so I'm going with it for now.

-Jon

lildevildee
10-24-2007, 05:19 AM
OK, changing oil is easy but how did You reset service miles counter on the cluster?
At dealership they connect it to their service computer and I was told You can't do it without it...


I didn't. I just ignore it. How hard it is to remember to change the oil every 10,000 miles? If we could change the Assyst over to sched. a/b/c, then I'd want it reset.

It's like the TPMS. How hard is it to check the tire pressure at every fuel-up? I think there are too many dummy lights and not enough useful gauges.

Altered Sprinter
10-24-2007, 05:21 AM
Thanks jon
Amsoil should be OK as it does state a standard, Euro Standards are higher and more reliable as to how they are tested, but were talking a few thousand K's
Higher valued oils, as an example 15W-40 is for a Sprinter that carries huge loads and is restricted to shorter service intervals= extended service period up to 40 Thousand kilometers.
Mobil One has since reintroduced a new syntetic oil, but as of yet not available in the USA.
Richard

jdcaples
10-24-2007, 07:01 AM
I didn't. I just ignore it. How hard it is to remember to change the oil every 10,000 miles? If we could change the Assyst over to sched. a/b/c, then I'd want it reset.

It's like the TPMS. How hard is it to check the tire pressure at every fuel-up? I think there are too many dummy lights and not enough useful gauges.

My TPMS shows numbers for PSI, but I agree - probably because I'm old school - and have a fondness for mechanical gauges as opposed to all the electronic senders that sandwich ASICs and what-have-you between me and the metrics.

I'd love to know the temperature of my engine oil, not just the pressure.

-Jon

lildevildee
10-24-2007, 08:00 PM
My TPMS shows numbers for PSI, but I agree - probably because I'm old school - and have a fondness for mechanical gauges as opposed to all the electronic senders that sandwich ASICs and what-have-you between me and the metrics.

I'd love to know the temperature of my engine oil, not just the pressure.

-Jon

Do you have the steering wheel buttons? I don't; my computer only has the dummy light.

I agree about the mechanical gauges!

jdcaples
11-10-2007, 08:01 PM
Do you have the steering wheel buttons? I don't; my computer only has the dummy light.

I agree about the mechanical gauges!


lildevildee,

I thought I posted an answer, but I was mistaken... yes, I have the steering wheel with buttons.

-Jon

lildevildee
11-11-2007, 05:13 AM
lildevildee,

I thought I posted an answer, but I was mistaken... yes, I have the steering wheel with buttons.

-Jon

Very nice. I wish I did...

Does anyone else run Elf Solaris LSX 5W-30 oil? MB spec 229.31
and 229.51.

hvlservice
08-08-2008, 10:17 PM
Hey Guys,
Diesel OM642 Engines only
Good Bye MOBIL 1 ESP welcome Castrol SLX Professional OE. 5w30
This new baby will last 2 oil changes it conforms to MB 229.51 regulation right on the 1 Quart bottle.
The only snag is you have to buy it from VW Dealers.
US $ 8.56 or $5.74 dealer cost.
As far as oil filter use NAPA Gold 7038 ($10.00)
other filters go to: www.Sprinterfilters.com free shipping

More news later

Brad Vancouver BC

machinemon
06-11-2009, 12:21 PM
I read somewhere that the guage can be reset by playing the key on and push button on dash dance. I will try to find it again. I just got my truck. Dodge Sprinter 3500 140" wb i think. Does this make it a T1N? I am just getting my books and stuff together. What does one big wrench and one small one mean? -400. I am just under 50K miles. I hope it is the oil change lite and not full scale nuclear war. I am going to see what oil I can find locally before I mail order. I am near Austin Texas. Thanks for any help. I just got mine, it was a hell of a deal @ 16.5k and I love it...

Dan Holm
06-11-2009, 02:22 PM
T1N is the model year 2006 and prior. I did read in the owners manual for my 2007, that the service light can be re-set by a procedure outlined in the book.

kendall69
06-12-2009, 09:28 PM
Dumb question, but.....why is Shell Rotella T approved, yet the synthetic version is not?

The synthetic is a better oil.

jdcaples
06-12-2009, 09:47 PM
Shell products that are recognized by Daimler as "approved," are on the MB229.51 sheet, available at bevo.daimler.com.

Attached is the one current to May 08 2009. I didn't see Rotella anything on the list.

-Jon

amirbtalai
06-29-2009, 03:40 AM
I was using the Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5-40 in my Sprinter until I found that it does not meet the MB spec, due to the ash content. I switched to Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5-40, and immediately developed a leak at the rear main seal.

Has anyone else had this problem?

And regarding Amsoil, I am convinced that it is a good product. I myself have not seen
that it has the MB spec for low ash, but I am slowly moving away from Mobil 1 products.
I recently switched from Mobil 1 to Amsoil in my motorcycle.

Lubro Moly is a better product, but hard to find.

Altered Sprinter
06-29-2009, 05:58 AM
I was using the Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5-40 in my Sprinter until I found that it does not meet the MB spec, due to the ash content. I switched to Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5-40, and immediately developed a leak at the rear main seal.

Has anyone else had this problem?

And regarding Amsoil, I am convinced that it is a good product. I myself have not seen
that it has the MB spec for low ash, but I am slowly moving away from Mobil 1 products.
I recently switched from Mobil 1 to Amsoil in my motorcycle.

Lubro Moly is a better product, but hard to find.

This is the correct oil for your sprinter amusing it's an NCV
Richard
glxxencvlmomobil_delvac_xhp_le_10w-40.pdf (application/pdf Object) (http://www.mobil.com/Australia-English/Lubes/PDS/glxxencvlmomobil_delvac_xhp_le_10w-40.pdf)
14829 Adding notation I just spent an hour with Mobil carefully sifting through the specifications as to what a Sprinter specific is? this oil is the exacting product for a Sprinter that exceeds 3.5 Tonne and is subject to all operating conditions especially high operating engines at temps under stress.

amirbtalai
06-30-2009, 12:01 AM
Hi Richard,

The link you sent me shows the higher ash content of 1%. And it
does not meet the MB 229.51 spec. I will have to check my manual
again to see if the MB 228.5 is adequate.

Mobil 1 is telling me the seal is the culprit, but I am not satisfied with their answer.
I don't believe that at 32k miles switching oil should suddenly develop a leak.

And mine is a T1N, not a NCV.

Aqua Puttana
06-30-2009, 12:56 AM
Hi Richard,

The link you sent me shows the higher ash content of 1%. And it
does not meet the MB 229.51 spec. I will have to check my manual
again to see if the MB 228.5 is adequate.

Mobil 1 is telling me the seal is the culprit, but I am not satisfied with their answer.
I don't believe that at 32k miles switching oil should suddenly develop a leak.

And mine is a T1N, not a NCV.
You don't need ESP formula for a T1N. I've been using Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5-40 in my T1N Sprinter for the last 25,000 miles. I mistakenly thought it was rated for the Sprinter. I have had no oil leaks. That said, my next oil change will most likely be to the Mobile 1 Supersyn which has the T1N I5 engine MB approvals printed on the label.

I installed a new serpentine belt at 184,000 miles. At 190,000 my water pump seal went bad. Were they related? I have no idea. Is your seal failure related to the oil used and change to another type? I have no idea. I doubt it though. Just because Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5-40 doesn't have MB approval does not make it a "bad" oil. Sometimes coincidences happen coincidentally. AP

Altered Sprinter
06-30-2009, 01:45 AM
Mobil use the search tool
PRODUCT DATA SHEET LIBRARY (http://www.exxonmobil.com/pdssearch/search.asp?chooseLanguage=en&CountryValue=Australia) this one will show the entire range of oils
MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEETS (http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/)
LUBRICANT RECOMMENDATION TOOL (http://www.datateck.com.au/lube/mobil_au/)
Note what Mobil U.S does not show is Sprinter specific! However no matter which engine or trans from a 3 series onwards the oils in the Mobil range are specific unless you want a lesser syn or mineral based oil for your van.
Delvac is the alternative for extreme operations each has a trade off.
14864

14865

14866

14867
Quote Mobil1 Gold 0w-40 is the latest of advanced oils , TINS;the specks below on the pdf are perfect for the sprinter.
As the above are an older formulation but still OK 229.31 229.5

14868
Richard

Jrmorgan
07-22-2009, 10:16 PM
Seems like the Amsoil debate goes on. I am very close to my first 10,000 oil change. Here is my two cents worth.

I bought an 06 Harley Davidson FXDWI. I come to find, the engine sounded like a bad sewing machine. The Transmission shifted hard, and the primary chain and clutch made a lot of noise. H-D dealer mechanics said with a laugh, on those twin cam engines make a lot of noise. This is all with HD's recommended synthetic oils. A friend of mine has a Honda Goldwing, when we ride together he says he never heard such a noisy bike as far as mechanical noise. Also he complains he can't hear his radio next to my bike.

I used to drag race Shovel Head engine HD's. So I know HD engines...

So, I read up on modern oils, seems Amsoil get huge reviews. I decided to try it.
Damn what a difference. All the above described noises disappeared. You would never know it was the same bike. Amsoil claims engines will run 30 degrees Fahrenheit cooler. I can't verify that. But seems the bike is very happy with the three different types of oil The bike needs.

I am assuming from reading all the posts, Amsoil's European oils will do a great job.

I think I will take the plunge and use Amsoil unless one of you think its dead wrong.

John

jdcaples
07-23-2009, 05:06 AM
Jrmorgan,

Since you have a T1N (NAFTA 2006), you're not as constrained as an NCV3 owner, with regards to engine oil.

That said, I think you'll be "safe" with any of the Amsoil products that match a spec in your owners manual, or an NCV3 manual.

-Jon

Altered Sprinter
07-23-2009, 05:26 AM
I'm in consensus of agreement with Jon: My only point of reference is the later oils fir the NCV are back-wards comparable, and most likely a better deal to use, as for the price point of oils mineral, semi-syn, full-syn or or super-syn, as to weights! You get what you pay for.
Richard

72chevy4x4
10-09-2009, 01:45 AM
[B][COLOR=red]I think I will take the plunge and use Amsoil unless one of you think its dead wrong.

John

that's an interesting story regarding the lower noise level. I use to have an older mercedes E class diesel with the straight 6. After trying soy diesel blend (20% biodiesel) the engine noise lessened noticably.

sailsailor
10-09-2009, 02:26 PM
I think this answers the question of standards met for MB oil in the Sprinter.

https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/afl.aspx

I've been using Amsoil for 25 years in a variety of vehicles, GM diesel remember the 6.2 litre:yell:, Saabs, Subaru's, VW's, Ford diesel tractors, and motorcycles, with no oil related issues. What started me was cold cranking ability here in Michigan during the winters. Once the warranty on my Sprinter is up I'll be changing to this oil.

Expert Marine
10-10-2009, 05:50 AM
Since we are on the Oil subject, you might want to read this when you have a few extra minutes.

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

I'm trying to decide between the Elf/Total and Mobile 1 for my NCV3...

Nhuskys
03-20-2010, 03:17 AM
Valvoline that meets the 229.51 MB standard is the only readily availible oil availible in my area. It only comes in quarts or 55 gal. drums. Is there anything availible in 1 gal., 2 gal. or 5 gal. containers. I really dislike all the empty bottles.

blackheart
04-27-2010, 02:03 PM
Shell products that are recognized by Daimler as "approved," are on the MB229.51 sheet, available at bevo.daimler.com.

Attached is the one current to May 08 2009. I didn't see Rotella anything on the list.

-Jon

Shell Rotella T6 is MBenz approved 228.31

but Shell states that this oil meets or exceeds that rating.
After one looks up the SAPS and HTHS along with other oil chemistry specs on Shell Rotella T6 one can see it will not harm a DPF ( and Shell in fact states it is DPF friendly oil ) in every way and is a very good engine oil.

I know of Fleets of Sprinters that use this oil and I have been using it for a long time myself with no ill effects . It is just for whatever reason Shell has not obtained a approval MB 229.31 or 229.51 for that oil

blackheart
04-27-2010, 07:49 PM
Oh and here is a wrench I found on EBAY that ships world wide

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-Dodge-Sprinter-Diesel-84mm-Oil-Filter-Wrench-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem53e0b33002QQitemZ36025 2125186QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries

approx 13.00 bucks not including shipping

piper1
04-27-2010, 07:59 PM
Blackheart...while the new Rotella T6 is an amazing oil, it still has more ash in it than a proper 229.51 spec oil. Higher levels of ash reduce DPF life, it may not result in a 50% reduction in life but it WILL reduce the life. "DPF freindly" in North America is largely based on the typical DPF that is larger than out Sprinter DPF. T6 has 1% sulfated ash while most 229.51 products are under 0.75%, and that quarter percent is significant. FYI the Mobil ESP M is near 0.6%.

I know a larger truck fleet (big highway stuff) that did not make the switch to CJ-4 (lower ash) oils when they started buying 07 emission rule DPF equipped trucks. They are now having issues with cracked DPF internal structures on a significant number of their trucks.

Altered Sprinter
04-28-2010, 12:53 AM
I looked at both the U.S and Oz specs for shell on T6 T7 Rotella they are not approved for the Sprinter NCV DPF
Both are showing 228.51 228.31 228.1
Specs changed in 2006-7 for catalytic systems but found zero on a DPF on both sides of the pond. Shell cross references to Penrite and Rimula range
Yes the oils 15-40 10-40 have had problems at low viscosity starts including Castrol Magnetic Diesel none were for a DPF and only half were Benz approved for An EGR Turbo assisted engine.
I'd be careful as to the correct shell oils if being used on A NCV V6 with EGR SCR DPF systems
As for a Blutec 2010 What is the recommended oil for this one in the USA
All I can find is 5W-30
Richard.

jdcaples
04-28-2010, 01:23 AM
As for a Blutec 2010 What is the recommended oil for this one in the USA
All I can find is 5W-30
Richard.


NAFTA 2010 Engines are OM642.898 engines (note that my 2007 NAFTA Sprinter is an OM642.993).

The specifications on WIS for OM642.898 are

MB 228.51
MB 229.31
MB 229.51

There is no weight specification that I can find.

-Jon

blackheart
04-28-2010, 01:56 AM
Finding an oil for these in the STATES is hard , real hard.
It is spec'd @228.51 - - 229.31 - -
- - 229.51 and that oil will cost you dearly or you will gag at the shipping costs .
I know the Shell Rotella T6 isn't spec'd for the newer model (2008 ) Sprint diesels but it is spec'd at 228.31 it is just one step below 228.51 and it claims to meet or exceed its specs. It also boasts DPF friendly attributes that are ok'd by a host of other DPF manufacturers

This oil rhubarb is all about the lawsuit filled against MBenz back in the day. They are a little goofy about spec's on a oil now

see link for explanation
http://www.synthetic-motor-oil-change-and-filters.com/amsoil_articles/presidents-desk/june-2003.php

Fact is a lot of oils are ok for the MB Sprinter but MB has been burned once and it isn't going to happen again.

The law suit was some goofball who used a conventional oil ( cheap ) and ran it like it was a synthetic oil looking for a 20,000 mile oil change interval - and that ain't going to happen.

If one is going to use Shell RotellaT6- a 10,000 mile interval is antiquate and safe for your needs , and may be extended after a used oil analysis shows what you have left in the additive package after that amount of miles .
http://www-static.shell.com/static/can-en/downloads/products_services/lubricants/rotella/rotella_t6.pdf
It isn't like it will explode the engine or cause damage to the DPF.
http://i39.tinypic.com/deml39.jpg


Anyway I like talking oil and especially enjoy doing it with a gentleman like yourself

Altered Sprinter
04-28-2010, 06:12 AM
Finding an oil for these in the STATES is hard , real hard.
It is spec'd @228.51 - - 229.31 - -
- - 229.51 and that oil will cost you dearly or you will gag at the shipping costs .
I know the Shell Rotella T6 isn't spec'd for the newer model (2008 ) Sprint diesels but it is spec'd at 228.31 it is just one step below 228.51 and it claims to meet or exceed its specs. It also boasts DPF friendly attributes that are ok'd by a host of other DPF manufacturers

This oil rhubarb is all about the lawsuit filled against MBenz back in the day. They are a little goofy about spec's on a oil now

see link for explanation
http://www.synthetic-motor-oil-change-and-filters.com/amsoil_articles/presidents-desk/june-2003.php

Fact is a lot of oils are ok for the MB Sprinter but MB has been burned once and it isn't going to happen again.

The law suit was some goofball who used a conventional oil ( cheap ) and ran it like it was a synthetic oil looking for a 20,000 mile oil change interval - and that ain't going to happen.

If one is going to use Shell RotellaT6- a 10,000 mile interval is antiquate and safe for your needs , and may be extended after a used oil analysis shows what you have left in the additive package after that amount of miles .
http://www-static.shell.com/static/can-en/downloads/products_services/lubricants/rotella/rotella_t6.pdf
It isn't like it will explode the engine or cause damage to the DPF.
http://i39.tinypic.com/deml39.jpg


Anyway I like talking oil and especially enjoy doing it with a gentleman like yourself
Shell V Shell Australia
On a Mobil 1 thread sorry Guys:cry:
Blackheart You have failed to convince me that this is the correct oil for your 2007 sprinters onwards to 2010
Although there is a CJ/4 API spec No ECEA
EA specs for either Acea 7 or Acea E9

What is missing from the specs are actual specifics
EGR Most importantly Turbo assisted and Particulate Filter
Shell uses MB 228.5 through to 2010 Euro 5 Specification's for Diesel including CNG
The US specs do not cover this at all,
Nor does it state from 2007 onwards
Please convince me :thumbup:
I honestly feel it's so vague ,That I would not risk 5W-40
=====================
Look at the Shell Australian side
Download Shell Rimula R6 LM Brochure (PDF, 1403 KB) - opens in new window (http://www-static.shell.com/static/aus/downloads/lubricants/shell_rimula_r6_lm.pdf)
Rimula R6M 10W-40 API CJ4 E7
Read it very carefully and note NO EGR is mentioned,Turbo and in particular DPF will trap the ASH
That is not what the Benz DPF is designed for, as it is not a fixed filter trap for disposal at servicing.

Look for Helix R4L 15w40
It covers MB 229.5 American Trucks 2007 Euro 34 and 5 with Exhaust Gas Reticulated turbo assisted engines Diesel.and DPF
API CJ4-Acea Low saps/Acea E9
23042

Then go through the site and look at Shells products
I have not looked at the complete range
Richard

Altered Sprinter
04-28-2010, 06:45 AM
Found it
Helix 5W30 Ultra Extra MB 229.51
23043

23044
Shell Helix Ultra - AUSTRALIA (http://www.shell.com.au/home/content/aus/products_services/on_the_road/oils_lubricants/helix/product_range/ultra/)
Look at 5W-30 Extra
Therefore the correct formulation for Amercedes Sprinter is covered and approved by MB 229.51
NCV

Aqua Puttana
04-28-2010, 01:25 PM
...

Nor does it state from 2007 onwards

...


Not to muck up the waters (as a T1N owner), but I thought that the 2007 included some MB spec oil for that NAFTA year which didn't make the list for 2008 and beyond? So for the NAFTA 2007 NCV3 model year only, Shell RotellaT6 may be fine?

If my memory is right about that it may allow some 2007 owners to save a few bucks. Sorry if this is incorrect. vic

Altered Sprinter
04-28-2010, 02:53 PM
Vic you may have that one right in part as to the confusion NAFTA and Euro
However Euro Sprinter NCV Late 2006 Particulate Filter.
NAFTA Later 2007 For NCV Particulate filter.

T6 Shell Rotella NAFTA still is not the correct oil for a Mercedes Sprinter NCV with a particulate filter.Hence no MB 229.51 certification.
It may be suitable for a truck but not the Sprinter as such.

Noting save nickles and dimes, can cost you a chapter 7/11 if your in business working a fine profit margin.
.
What my emphasis is simply put. You have massive EGR issues. We don't down under.
Yet we have similar engines.


U.S gets a lower Hp, we have Higher Hp.
You have SCR, We don't.
You have a DPF ,so do we.
Our EGR system is internal, you have a EGR external valve.Why?

OK: Your emission standards are higher than Europe on paper,but in the real world of facts ,N/A does not have proper Fame standards, or International ASTM D standards.
Shell Australia covers both ASTM standards for American and Euro emission standards.
Shell N/America does not 228.5 is a long ways short of 229.5 Backwards comparable for a Tin or 229.51 for a NCV.

Saving a Buck is false economy in the short term and a total waste of money in the longer term of the engines livability.

Making a valid point Mobil Delvac: Look at the specs a I put in .Mobil clearly shows Sprinters
Yet on the actual 5 liter jug it does not.as to only showing Cummings Detroit Diesel Volvo MB 228.3 229.1 Mack Allison Man and RVI MX is mineral based 15w-40 with the 2006 Improved CI 4

Where the common mistake of identifying an oil is Tonnage.
Mobil 1 5w-30 its for sedans not Sprinters
Mobil realized this latter on when it was bought to their attention That the original MB specs were for a 2 series Sprinter not 3 series or 4 and 5 series Sprinters.

Which is why Mobil1 sypersyn 0w-40 is fully synthetic MB229.5 Euro 4 with non particulate filters up to 3500 KG this oil is suitable for all sprinters in the Tin series, as it exceeds all other older MB numbered variants/ad has a thirty thousand long range interval oil change schedule or twelve months which ever comes first.

Example I ring the Mobil Chemist the first thing he will say MB 229.3 229.51 5w-3o Porsche Volvo BMW.

I ask Sprinter over tonnage of 3.5 metric Tonne.

Answer Mobil 1 Sypersyn 0-W40 or NCV. Go mineral and do not use Mobil1 5W-30 unless you want to change the oil inside of 6 thousand kilometers its just to light an oil for A Mercedes Sprinter.

OK I'm looking at Shell N/A T6 228.5 Shell Australia Helix Ultra extra MB 229.51
Chalk and cheese.

Shell T6 in my humble opinion has no oil suitable for a Sprinter nor is it approved by MB as suitable.

But at under 20 buck for 3.78 US gallons you get what you pay for.

I'd suggest someone ring the chemist and get documentary proof that it's suitable for a Mercedes Sprinter with MB 229.51 certification

Accepting the thread is based upon a NCV: But noting the only difference between engines And HP is they are the same engine in either 4-inline or the V6 up until July 2009 as to Euro engine type,with an additional DPF resulting in an oil spec gravitation.from MB229.5 to MB 229.51

My 313 CDi has the same specs for oil as the 5-inline.

From the onset of the first oil change I used Mobil Delvac MX 15W-40 for one year then switched to BP Vanellus G6 as it had a higher viscosity value.

The only concern I had with the BP Vanellus was Winter with low temps as to the time frame of reaching a temperature for the oils viscosity to actually work up to ten minutes, I have always been conscious of this issue,but learned to idle it at low RPM until temperature was reached. thus reducing excessive strain on the engine.

With the new Mobil 0W-40 sypersyn I don't have this problem now and it does not consume extra oil depending on varying operational loads so far I have not have to add oil in 5 thousand kilometers and the oil retains the same color as original
The catch 22 question is it's 3 times the price of conventional oil, But then again my van has never recorded a single fault code, or ever been back to a Mercedes dealership for servicing.

That leaves the question as to what have I done so right; that's so different! to others who run the lesser oils,with issues.???
Richard
23045

piper1
04-28-2010, 11:43 PM
Blackheart, The T6 oil, WILL shorten the life of your DPF. As to any other engine issues it may cause, the jury is out on that one.

The price you show at Wal-Mart is $4.88 a quart, Valvoline SynPower MST 5W40...a fully approved MB229.51 oil....is available from any NAPA or other Valvoline retailer. NAPA puts it on sale several times a year for ~ $5 a quart (the last sale was $5.19). Is it worth saving $4.03 per service to you not to put the right stuff in? Those savings would evaporate and then some with a single DPF cleaning or replacement.

blackheart
04-29-2010, 01:25 AM
I went to the Dealership and asked what oil they use for my vehicle - they said Shell Rotella T6

This was the dealer .

It isn't so much as saving a nickel, what it is about is availability . There is no spec 228.51
(Approved for my Sprinter per owners manual )

I have asked for the Valvoline 5W40 MST
and it isn't available - period, the Mobil 1 0W40 is available for 8.00 a quart and they only have small lots 6 quarts at a time for sale at the autp parts near me.

Now I have found an oil supplier point of sale that will sell me Schaeffer T9000 full syn in a 5 gal pail that is rated 229.5

If it is priced right I will look at that

blackheart
04-29-2010, 01:31 AM
Blackheart, The T6 oil, WILL shorten the life of your DPF. As to any other engine issues it may cause, the jury is out on that one.



What do you base that statement on ?

What does an oil that you recommend have in it / or not have in it / that Shell Rotella T6 doesn't have -- and it what quantity ?

Or are you just parroting a spec by MBenz ?

You see too often all people can do is say it isn't a spec oil by the manufaturere and they have nothing else.

Fact is I could probably run a garbage oil through this engine and as long as it had a low saps and changed it out every three thousand nothing would be harmed .... fact .

Most of the spec MBenz calls for is not so much for the DPF but for the extended oil change

I have the entire MBenz spec list here next to me from 226.9
to
229.51
and all I can say is the only difference between 228.31 which SHell Rotella T6 meets and 228.51 is fuel economy and longer change intervals.

FACTS my friend facts not emotion and product loyality are what are needed in a discussion about oil

Altered Sprinter
04-29-2010, 01:35 AM
Hi Blackheart
Tin Now 229.5
NCV 228.51 229.31 229.51 229.51
API Plus ACEA
Richard
23052

blackheart
04-29-2010, 01:51 AM
http://i44.tinypic.com/330wf12.jpg

228.51 is all I need to meet I don't need higher and 228.31 which Rotella T6 meets is all I can get local excpet for that T9000 made by a small Company . small as far as oil goes .

Altered Sprinter
04-29-2010, 01:54 AM
There you go 229.51 is the final number for a NCV with a particulate filter.
Find an oil that has 229.51
Richard

blackheart
04-29-2010, 02:20 AM
228.51
was introduced for a longer change interval and it has a minimal lower SAPS anything from
.08 to .05

T6 HAS A SAPS of @.10 or under -- and is considered a Super High Performance engine oil

where 228.51 oils are considered Ultra High Performance engine oils

I have to run this as the other oils are just not available .

I will post a oil analysis when I have one done

See you in 180,000 miles and let you all know how the DPF is doing.

Wish we had mappers here to remove the darn thing

piper1
04-29-2010, 02:43 AM
What do you base that statement on ?

What does an oil that you recommend have in it / or not have in it / that Shell Rotella T6 doesn't have -- and it what quantity ?

Or are you just parroting a spec by MBenz ?

You see too often all people can do is say it isn't a spec oil by the manufaturere and they have nothing else.

Fact is I could probably run a garbage oil through this engine and as long as it had a low saps and changed it out every three thousand nothing would be harmed .... fact .

Most of the spec MBenz calls for is not so much for the DPF but for the extended oil change

I have the entire MBenz spec list here next to me from 226.9
to
229.51
and all I can say is the only difference between 228.31 which SHell Rotella T6 meets and 228.51 is fuel economy and longer change intervals.

FACTS my friend facts not emotion and product loyality are what are needed in a discussion about oil

OK......FACTS

Sulphated ash in motor oils shortens DPF life

When DPF's arrived on scene in North America for Heavy Duty trucks an entire new oil (CJ-4) had to be developed

The main difference was the lowering of sulphated ash levels (from around 1.5% to 1%)

The sulphated ash level was lowered to prevent premature DPF plugging with materials that cannot be burned out during a regeneration event

Sulphated ash is created when certain additives in motor oil burn in the combustion chamber (all engines burn some oil)

These additives are highly desired by the transportation industry at large as they promote longer service intervals (oils with higher TBN numbers)

It was very clear that DPF's would not tolerate theses additives in their current (pre DPF days) concentration.

MB229.51 oils have LOWER sulphated ash numbers than CJ-4 oils

Mobil ESP Formula M has an ash level of .63%, the Valvoline SynPower is at .78%

Rotella T-6 is at 1.0%

Rotella T-6 meets MB228.31

Shell (like almost all the oil companies) says their product exceeds specifications.....which specific specs? And exceeds in what way?

Mobil has all sorts of product that says it exceeds specs...yet they developed the specific MB229.51 product..why..if their other stuff exceeds specs?

I spoke with Shell technical representatives at the largest transportation industry gathering in North America a few weeks ago and asked specifically about T-6 and MB229.51

Their answer.....no, it has too much ash to meet the MB spec and could lead to premature DPF fouling not covered under warranty

Just because a MB Spec number increases in numerical value does not necessarily mean it is "better"...it is a different spec number...what it means...MB decides

I also have the entire MB spec list, Jon very nicely provided a link to a constantly updated Mercedes Benz website that lists oils approved for each spec

As of 5 minutes ago...ROTELLA T-6 was not on any of the approved oil specs for a North American NCV3 with a Diesel engine

I do not parrot for any manufacturer

My knowledge comes from 20 plus years as a licensed mechanic, and a fleet maintenance manager, and consultant to trucking companies on maintenance. I have recommended and used oils from Mobil, Esso, Petro Canada, Chevron, SHELL, Valvoline and even Kendall....based on the specific application and approvals, not emotion, not loyalty, just the desire/need/that's what they pay me for, to do it right.

I have been searching for a more widely available oil for a client who runs Sprinters (as well as my own), I have found none

My experience, and that of many other Sprinter owners some with over 500,000 miles, has been that using the non approved fluids shortens component life and results in costly repairs

It's your van...and it's your money, do what you wish, but to claim you have been using an oil that is realitively new to the marketplace, and it has had "no ill effects" is misleading to other members. It has had no "ill effects" yet and may never catch up to you as long as you own the van...some here are in it for the long haul.

Read the forum...."dealer recommended oil" is a claim that will make many here laugh, as dealers all over NA have been using non approved oils in the NCV3 engines and the results have been...not good.

"Fact is I could probably run a garbage oil through this engine and as long as it had a low saps and changed it out every three thousand nothing would be harmed .... fact ." these are your words...
so low saps is all this engine needs? What about the incredibly high oxidation that goes on in this engine (from oil analysis)? Think that might be part of the spec? Will a garbage oil handle that and not load the rings and crown lands on the piston up with carbon? Carbon that polishes cylinder bores and removes cylinder wall hone marks that keep oil consumption down among other things?

Enjoy your T-6...it is, as I said before, an amazing oil, in the right application.

BTW, at 115,000 miles, I have not removed my DPF, the last check registered below 1 gram, and I have yet to remove my EGR valve or any other emission component for any reason, the whole life on MB229.51 oil (Mobil and Valvoline). I'll let everyone know how things are at 180,000 miles too, should be about 6-7 months from now.

Altered Sprinter
04-29-2010, 02:48 AM
Blackheart Thats fine use what you feel comfortable with.
But for the forum members T6 is an older formulation that was devised by shell in 2005
It does not meet ACEA E7 or E9 for emission requirements for Euro 4
As the thread has migrated to years and keeps jumping on non Mobil based oils.
My point is the MB charts have not been upgraded
as they pertain to an older generation of the same engines, the differences are to advanced injection SCR catalysis EGR, Turbo assist and a DPF migrating into the 2010 bluetec for the N/A market.
As many have said Oils are hard to get in the correct formulation, but many look for cheap oils.
There are two references to oil
API and ACEA for NCV in the USA the ACEA is [2007 MB E7 to E9 up until late 2009]
Hence the migration from MB 228.51 to 229.51 from July 2006 for any NCV does not matter where it lands NCV is MB 229.51
I have included 5 of Shells 2005 -2006 projections for API and ACEA future oils
It simply shows the progression of ACEA oils.
You have no option but to use MB 229.51 nothing else.
If not Blocked no regeneration of a DPF
Failed EGR Valves.
Failed injectors Black Death.
Blown turbos or leaking turbos
excessive contaminated fuels resulting in un burnt oil
Damaging valves, due to blocked injectors, Burnt Crown pistons, cams, white metal burned on bearing and crankshaft, and badly scored piston walls.
MB 228.51 is out of Range for the NCV Sprinter.

23053

23054

23055

23056

23057
Richard

christhain
04-29-2010, 01:07 PM
Mobil use the search tool
PRODUCT DATA SHEET LIBRARY (http://www.exxonmobil.com/pdssearch/search.asp?chooseLanguage=en&CountryValue=Australia) this one will show the entire range of oils
MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEETS (http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/)
LUBRICANT RECOMMENDATION TOOL (http://www.datateck.com.au/lube/mobil_au/)
Note what Mobil U.S does not show is Sprinter specific! However no matter which engine or trans from a 3 series onwards the oils in the Mobil range are specific unless you want a lesser syn or mineral based oil for your van.
Delvac is the alternative for extreme operations each has a trade off.
14864

14865

14866

14867
Quote Mobil1 Gold 0w-40 is the latest of advanced oils , TINS;the specks below on the pdf are perfect for the sprinter.
As the above are an older formulation but still OK 229.31 229.5

14868
Richard


Thanks Richrad for the headup for Mobil Australia NetLube,
Have been using Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 from start don't think I will change :thinking: I will speak to MBM Service for there advice on the two oils....

Altered Sprinter
04-29-2010, 01:46 PM
Thanks Richrad for the headup for Mobil Australia NetLube,
Have been using Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 from start don't think I will change :thinking: I will speak to MBM Service for there advice on the two oils....
Thanks Christhain;if your happy with Mobil 5W-30 Thats great My problem was it's too light for my use and from the start of 2005 I used MB Euro specs to no avail as to a single issue with my van
my Tin operated in Hilly to mountain areas with rapid fluctuations in elevations and temps plus full loads.
We are fortunate in Australia as to our free choice of oils,in fact we are spoiled rotten.
I have spent many hours with the Mobil and BP chemists so much information is available that is not on a bottle or even a PDF Data sheet.Quoting Mobil chemist we are having enough trouble keeping up Oils for the new European models, and they don't sell a lot or make much out of it,either due to low volume sales and other competition from others.
But that's for the OZ section if it ever comes up.
Cheers Richard:thumbup:

blackheart
04-29-2010, 10:55 PM
Well guys all I can say is

thanks

you all have me convinced that I have labored under a false presumption that I was using a ok oil. In part due to the dealership telling me that is what they used .

Good news --

that small oil supply near me that has point of sale
has a MBenz spec oil that is 228.51 and 229.31 - 229.51 approved it is a
Schaeffer T 9000 full syn oil

( on the web site it does not state that but on the bottles of 5W40 it does )

1 gallon jugs for 19.00 / bulk purchase / - that is a great price .

Well just want to say thanks again for all the great advice folks.

jdcaples
04-29-2010, 11:48 PM
<snip>
In part due to the dealership telling me that is what they used .


Well just want to say thanks again for all the great advice folks.

Just curious: Would that be a Dodge dealership or a Mercedes-Benz dealership?


-Jon

Altered Sprinter
04-30-2010, 12:22 AM
Hi Blackheart,sorry for giving you such a hard time{Honest:thumbup:}
A Quick Link to a UK 229.51 choice of oils. Many of these are available in N/A
Noticed Amsoil s there! But no PDF Data sheet.:shifty:
MB - Engine Oil - 229.51 (http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-722-mb-22951-oil.aspx)
Richard

blackheart
04-30-2010, 01:31 AM
Just curious: Would that be a Dodge dealership or a Mercedes-Benz dealership?


-Jon

Dodge

blackheart
04-30-2010, 01:32 AM
Hi Blackheart,sorry for giving you such a hard time{Honest:thumbup:}
A Quick Link to a UK 229.51 choice of oils. Many of these are available in N/A
Noticed Amsoil s there! But no PDF Data sheet.:shifty:
MB - Engine Oil - 229.51 (http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-722-mb-22951-oil.aspx)
Richard

Not at all cousin . We be sitting around the camp fire just talking is the way I see it .

IslandGuy
04-30-2010, 01:36 AM
Not sure if this has been covered...but what weight/type of oil is shipped in the V6 engines from the factory? I would think that 5w-40 should be in my 2008 3500 Winnebago MH.

Best,
Jim

jdcaples
04-30-2010, 01:52 AM
The factory fill is break-in oil.

Someone in the Ladson, SC factory - a couple of years ago - told me my 2007 was filled with oil I can't buy, break in oil, spec'd at 5w30.

You can find break in oils of several weights which are approved break in oils at http://bevo.daimler.com. You're looking for Low SPash/SAPs something or other break in oils for diesel engines. I think the spec sheet even says 642 in an engine column.

I doubt any Daimler employee will tell you it's such-n-such brand, of THISw-THAT viscosity.

-Jon

PS: having done contact work for three or four Daimler suppliers, I can tell you that Daimler drives a hard bargain and it wouldn't be out of character for them to switch suppliers as long as the chemistry was good and the price was right.

Altered Sprinter
04-30-2010, 05:44 AM
Not at all cousin . We be sitting around the camp fire just talking is the way I see it .
Cool I can relate to the fireside chat :bounce: we get so drunk, we forgot what in heck we were talking about and end up starting the same old chat all over again.:lol:
Especially when the Giant Rats move in.
23083
Richard

blackheart
06-07-2010, 10:46 PM
Tom, Fleece oil filters, are part of the Mann Hummel group! its the standard paper type filter The particular one quoted is for both OM 642 De 32 LA and OM 648 engines.
Proble m is the Dodge one is for 2003 OM 642 V6 and it's not qualified for this particular filter with the second generation EGR fuel systems
My year 2005 is as far back as you can go for this filter with the DPF
The problem we have is which engine is the new Sprinter running on it's not a OM 642 as MB is rating it a OM 648 and that's where the question really begins, what is in the Sprinter.
Richard
Fleece filters are for extended oil change use (15,000-20,000) .
Paper filters are fine for 10,000 mile oil changes
YMMV

blackheart
06-07-2010, 10:50 PM
I haven't read the entire thread but it seems like it's a standard debate that happens over at tdiclub.com. Amsoil is not approved on VW's oil spec list for TDIs even though the bottles are marked with VW spec. approval. *IF* you have any engine problems and have been running Amsoil, good ol' VW will deny warranty. However, from what I have heard, Amsoil is VERY good about backing their products.

For all of you you are complaining about the stealers using the wrong oil, why not change it yourself? It took me about an hour and a half doing a topside change. I pulled out 12l, replaced the oil filter and oil, and filled up with some Elf oil. Crawled underneath to make sure everything was good and called it a day. I went a bit slow on this change since it was the first and dealing with 12l of oil makes things a bit interesting since my tallboy only holds 6l and the Pela only holds 5l :)

Meeting a manufactures spec and being approved are at best the same thing.

One has just not paid the vehicle manufacturer the blood money they want to be on the approved list. A game I hope changes soon , as myself and I am sure many others are tired of .

doctorzaius
06-08-2010, 07:58 AM
After a year of reading similar threads, it almost seems like some folks take some pleasure in obfuscating this issue. Maybe a little guilty fun. So I just gotta ask: assuming that I have a 2008 sprinter that needs oil changing and assume I have to buy oil at the local parts store. What should I buy? And can anyone actually identify a real product (as apposed to a standard)?

Seriously, cut the ****, what should I buy?

jdcaples
06-08-2010, 04:00 PM
After a year of reading similar threads, it almost seems like some folks take some pleasure in obfuscating this issue. Maybe a little guilty fun. So I just gotta ask: assuming that I have a 2008 sprinter that needs oil changing and assume I have to buy oil at the local parts store. What should I buy? And can anyone actually identify a real product (as apposed to a standard)?

Seriously, cut the ****, what should I buy?


Mobil 1 Formula M ESP 5w-40 is on the shelves of many Pep Boys auto parts stores.

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_ESP_Formula_M_5W-40.asp

Valvoline MST 5W40 is carried by many, maybe most NAPA Auto Parts stores. The NAPA Part number is VAL966.

http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/SynPower.pdf

-Jon

PS: If you think this is **** tell me what's **** about it and help me learn to communicate with, and help you.

ChasM
06-18-2010, 08:22 PM
Delete.

hksnlper
06-24-2010, 04:32 AM
Cool I can relate to the fireside chat :bounce: we get so drunk, we forgot what in heck we were talking about and end up starting the same old chat all over again.:lol:
Especially when the Giant Rats move in.
23083
Richard


So Richard for a Dodge Sprinter 3500 Series with 3.0 Diesel Engine your recommendation will be mobile1 0w-40. Also this sprinter runs for about 10 hours a day constant once started in the morning and runs about 200 miles a day. Let me know if this changes every thing

Altered Sprinter
06-24-2010, 05:07 AM
So Richard for a Dodge Sprinter 3500 Series with 3.0 Diesel Engine your recommendation will be mobile1 0w-40. Also this sprinter runs for about 10 hours a day constant once started in the morning and runs about 200 miles a day. Let me know if this changes every thing
3500 Tin series MB 229.5 Mobil 1 Sypersyn 0W-40
3500 NCV 3 liter MB 229.51 CASTROL 0w-40 Edge sport IS THE ONLY FULLY APPROVED MB OIL THAT MEETS THE FULL SPECIFICATION as to meeting all API ACEA and 2009 Fuel economy specifications that is reasonably available to purchase.In looking at your miles per DAY 15w40 OR 5 w 40 would more than be adequate for summer where ambient temps are not below 10c on a cold crank start.
Richard

hksnlper
06-24-2010, 08:53 PM
3500 Tin series MB 229.5 Mobil 1 Sypersyn 0W-40
3500 NCV 3 liter MB 229.51 CASTROL 0w-40 Edge sport IS THE ONLY FULLY APPROVED MB OIL THAT MEETS THE FULL SPECIFICATION as to meeting all API ACEA and 2009 Fuel economy specifications that is reasonably available to purchase.In looking at your miles per DAY 15w40 OR 5 w 40 would more than be adequate for summer where ambient temps are not below 10c on a cold crank start.
Richard

Thanks a bunch Richard, I am in TX so HEAT plays a big role. Which 15W40 or 5W40 Brand you recommend.

Altered Sprinter
06-25-2010, 12:20 AM
Thanks a bunch Richard, I am in TX so HEAT plays a big role. Which 15W40 or 5W40 Brand you recommend.
what
model do you have ! Tin or NCV?
Richard

jdcaples
06-25-2010, 01:14 AM
hksnlper has a 2007 Dodge Sprinter 3500, if I recall correctly.

-Jon

hksnlper
06-25-2010, 03:47 AM
what
model do you have ! Tin or NCV?
Richard

2007 Dodge Sprinter 3500 with 3.0 Diesel Engine with Auto Transmission

Altered Sprinter
06-25-2010, 03:49 AM
Thank you Jon.
NCV In fairness to your question 15W-40 For a NAFTA V6 engine with an external EGR SCR and a particulate filter. in particular considering your poor fuel quality or suspect cetane ratings, where sludge build up is rapid as to unburnt fuels resulting in EGR blockage leading to now proven NCV black death resulting from the above in part thereof. " I would personally not go down the path with a 15W-40 mineral oil; 5W-30 semi syn oil or maybe 10W-40 supposedly full synthetic oils.
For high mileage all day operations under any temperature range!" Please, Please Take my advice and spend the extra dollars and find a 0W-40 Full synthetic oil that meets today's requirements for maximum performance ,that meets this set of numbers as to the absolute lowest value for your year model, 2007 but covers July 2006 UK NCV particulate exhaust variant as to the U.S 2007 NCV till July 2009.
0W-40 Full synthetic oil
Castrol Edge Sport MB 229.51 meets and exceeds all the current .U.S ACEA Numbers and matches all European requirements for ACEA including! "M111FE fuel economy standards".For a 3500 series I would change oil as per normal under H/D operations or 30 thousand kilometers as backed by Mercedes-Benz or U.S 10 thousand miles or 12 months whichever falls due first.and or what you feel comfortable with.
If using an alternative oil Minimum requirements as per photo.
Richard
24469

fitzcarraldo2
06-25-2010, 11:44 AM
I have a 2006 W903663 CDI 316 AUS specs sprinter and have just changed the oil+filter. It had Mobil1 ESP 5-30 from day one and I have used it also (the MB dealer recommeded it). I don't think I have a DPF ? How can I tell if it has one ? Should it be in the data card ? Can the data card be trusted ? It lists a Telma retarder, but there is no retarder fitted, its just a normal prop/shaft. My service booklet lists sheets 228.1/3/5, 229.1/3/31/5 and 229.1/3/5.
Is Mobil 1 ESP 5-30 the best oil for this engine ? The operating conditions are motorhome use, e.g. long distance driving.
What I can't quite understand is the color of the oil after a 30km drive after the oil change - it is clear/clean. In every other
MB Diesel engine in the cars I have changed the oil it was black as soon as the engine was started after the oil change.

Also the user manual talks about assyst and how to call up the service reminder (press KM twice) The result is it changes from
normal odometer to daytrip odometer but does not show the service intervall. Should it have Assyst ?

Thanks
fitzcarraldo2

qualityair
06-25-2010, 12:02 PM
As for the Castrol oil.....Can We really trust BP to put in the bottles what is stated on the label?

My trust in them is wanning. :2cents:

Altered Sprinter
06-25-2010, 12:22 PM
I have a 2006 W903663 CDI 316 AUS specs sprinter and have just changed the oil+filter. It had Mobil1 ESP 5-30 from day one More likely Delvac 5W-40 not 5W-30 ESP this has since been discontinued by Mobil and I have used it also (the MB dealer recommended it). I don't think I have a DPF ? You do not have a particulate exhaust Your Vin shows TRUCK variant Euro 3 How can I tell if it has one ? Should it be in the data card ? Your Vin shows your entire particular specification's as to your vehicle. Can the data card be trusted ? It lists a Telma retarder, but there is no retarder fitted, its just a normal prop/shaft. Data card shows prep 'WITH CODE' but it is not fitted with an actual Telma retarder service booklet lists sheets 228.1/3/5, 229.1/3/31/5 and 229.1/3/5.
Your manual is correct but that is not from 05.
MINERAL 228.3 229.3 FULL SYN 229.3 229.5 ANY OIL WITH A ACEA RATING OF 228.1 OR [Acea A2]... in the ACEA RATING HAS BEEN SUSPENDED BY Mercedes BENZ SUCH AS 5w-30 SEMI SYN 5w-40 REPLACED IT
Is Mobil 1 ESP 5-30 the best oil for this engine ?NO The operating conditions are motorhome use, e.g. long distance driving.Either 0W-40 Mobil full synthetic or 15W-40Mobil Delvac.mineral.
IN 2006-7 MB 229.51 WAS CONSIDERED BACK WARDS COMPARABLE:However the API and ACEA ratings have since been upgraded for better operating conditions and fuel economy.
What I can't quite understand is the color of the oil after a 30km drive after the oil change - it is clear/clean. In every other
MB Diesel engine in the cars I have changed the oil it was black as soon as the engine was started after the oil change.
Mineral and semi mineral turn black fast if your engine is not flushed between oil changes.

Also the user manual talks about assyst and how to call up the service reminder (press KM twice) The result is it changes from
normal odometer to daytrip odometer but does not show the service intervall. Should it have Assyst ? You have an analog system that showed the spanner and kilometers for the first 1000KLM only MB never reset in part because there computers system was not upgraded to the latter Euro data updates.one of the reasons there was never a recall on Tins.in OZ

Thanks
fitzcarraldo2 Carl your dealer has made the same mistake as others have, by looking at the Mobil site and misreading the information as to the way the site is set up,I rang Mobil and informed them although if you read the information which is correct it does show confusion as to integrating between Euro 3 to Euro 4 NCV sprinters they still do not list 2009 onwards as to the correct oil.
Note: I have not looked at Mobil's site for the last two months.as to modifying and updating the site.
Don't panic any of the oils work but have flaws as to maintenance and possible excessive wear on your engine if used long term.
Richard
ADDING CONTENT.
Mobil Australian Chart
24521
NOTICE THE YEAR 06 THIS IS WHERE THE CONFUSION LAYS WITH MOBIL
LATE 06 IS FOR THE UK NCV WITH EURO4 PARTICULATE FILTER
IGNORE MB Sheet 527 for Delvac Mobil 0W-40 229.51
Tin 200 2006/ is Mobil 0W-40 Sypersyn MB 229.3/229.5
Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 is an older oil formulation
good oil and proven but it is for my year 2004 /5 /06
rated MB 228.5 full synthetic
Now we have moved on with Tin approved fuel economy standards and further to improving emissions MB 229.5 full synthetic
24524
24522
24523
Richard

Altered Sprinter
06-25-2010, 12:45 PM
As for the Castrol oil.....Can We really trust BP to put in the bottles what is stated on the label?

My trust in them is wanning. :2cents: Take the BP politics out of the equation.
BP now outsources to Castrol as it has sold out of the reatil service station same as Shell did
I have globally match N/American Castrol MB 229.51 The only differences as to some models such as BMW as to Euro having an alloy block as opposed to some areas that have steel blocks
Castrol N/A clearly indicates which models! MB 229.51 retained.
Richard

jdcaples
06-25-2010, 04:06 PM
BP now outsources to Castrol as it has sold out of the reatil service station same as Shell did
Richard

Shell outsources to Castrol, or
Both Shell and BP are no longer retail service station owners, but granters of brand licenses for independently owned service stations?
-Jon

Altered Sprinter
06-25-2010, 04:38 PM
AS IS Mobil CHEVRON V CALTEX BUT THE OILS ARE COMPLIANT.
Most oil companies are selling off stations and refinery's as being non viable to operate, or to be more politically correct there's more money in extraction to be had from oil.
Shell did it too.
Have you got 10ppm ULSD yet?
Richard

jdcaples
06-25-2010, 04:45 PM
So brand owners (Shell, BP, Chevron, Conoco, Exxon-Mobil) etc) are all real estate assets, but not all are outsourcing the manufacture of motor oil to Castrol?

hksnlper
06-25-2010, 07:24 PM
I think I am going with the Mobile 1 0w40 Full Synthetic from my Local Benz Dealer they are charging $6 a quart which is not bad. Is there a special Brand for Diesel Engine or should Mobile 1 0w40 Full Synthetic will work. Also what About the AMSOIL European Car Formula 100% Synthetic 5W-40 Motor Oil (AFL)

jdcaples
06-25-2010, 08:05 PM
I use AMSOIL European Car Forumula (AFL (http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/afl.aspx)).

AFL's worked fine for me, after 20,000 miles. John Bendit (scubanw3), of Upscale Auto in Tualatin, OR uses it.

Be warned: AMSOIL European Car Formula self-proclaims MB229.51 compliance.

MB does not list any AMSOIL product on http://bevo.daimler.com and, as far as I know, AMSOIL's never paid Daimler to be on the MB229.51 approval list. If you're one to rely on the warranty (I am not), than you shouldn't use it.

-Jon

Altered Sprinter
06-26-2010, 03:23 AM
So brand owners (Shell, BP, Chevron, Conoco, Exxon-Mobil) etc) are all real estate assets, but not all are outsourcing the manufacture of motor oil to Castrol?
Thats a novel way of promoting real estate franchises at premium rates, but a wise man will go direct to the source, to seek the best possible deal as to accurate product and service information.
your three links are MB dealerships or the producer I'll put my faith in the latter.as to following MB'S guidelines.
Richard

hksnlper
06-28-2010, 04:21 AM
One Last Question Richard. What is the difference between Mobile 1 0W-40 and Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40. Both are costing the same to me but my Tech was leaning more towards the 5W-40

Altered Sprinter
06-28-2010, 04:41 AM
One Last Question Richard. What is the difference between Mobile 1 0W-40 and Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40. Both are costing the same to me but my Tech was leaning more towards the 5W-40
0W-40 is a more advanced oil for maximum viscosity range s from low to high temperatures. it produces less soot and oil contamination.
0W5-40 is equally a good oil but offers less protection on your engine at temperatures below 10c as to the time your engine reaches at minim 60c operating temperature, thus in the longer term of usage generates a greater wear factor.
Mobil 1 synthetic 0W5-40 is Superior as to the original so called synthetic Mobil 1 0W5-30 oil.
Your tech is right the 5-40 is a good ll round operating oil. May I just suggest as to how you operate, Low rpm around town there is better hence 0W-40 if your long haul at higher rpm then 5W40 is fine with distinct disadvantages at below temps of 10C the tests for below -20f Mobil did with the ADSM tests at low temps were on trucks such as Macks not Sprinters.
Richard PS: Make sure the current Mobil 1 Delvac 05W-40 Has an Acea rating of E7 not E6 E5
Old stocks are still about. many of Mobil's reference sites are not up to-date.
Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40 Product Data Sheet (http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENCVLMOMobil_Delvac_1_ESP_5W-40.asp)
Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40 Material Safety Data Sheet (http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/psims/AlternateFormat.aspx?Brand=XOM&DocumentID=687475&DocumentFormat=RTF)

piper1
06-28-2010, 03:00 PM
hksnlper,

You live in North America and have a NCV3 with the 3.0 L diesel...

Until your warranty is up and you can do whatever you want, you really should (as stated in your owners manual) use oils that meet spec MB228.51, or MB229.31, or the better MB229.51.

The only Mobil products that meet these specs that are available in North America are the ESP Formula M 5W40 and the Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 and ESP 0W40 products. There are approved products from a few other manufacturers as well.

The Mobil 0W40 product found at most stores (the Euro Car Formula) is not an approved oil. Mobil Delvac products in North America are NOT approved oils, The Castrol Edge products are NOT approved. Look for the appropriate MB spec numbers to be right on the bottle.

As you read through this site, you will see dealers have made wrong or poor oil recommendations and customers get stuck paying the bills when the damage happens. There are a lot of oils that will be "OK" in the short term but will cause damage over time.

Look up the oils you want to use on the MB oil site (jdcaples posts have the link) and make sure it meets the proper spec for your engine..MB specs...not ACEA or CJ whatever specs. I have seen what happens when you stray away from the right oils...and it is not very pretty.

Be Aware!

Altered Sprinter
06-28-2010, 04:11 PM
hksnlper,

You live in North America and have a NCV3 with the 3.0 L diesel...

Until your warranty is up and you can do whatever you want, you really should (as stated in your owners manual) use oils that meet spec MB228.51, or MB229.31, or the better MB229.51.

The only Mobil products that meet these specs that are available in North America are the ESP Formula M 5W40 and the Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 and ESP 0W40 products. There are approved products from a few other manufacturers as well.

The Mobil 0W40 product found at most stores (the Euro Car Formula) is not an approved oil. Mobil Delvac products in North America are NOT approved oils, The Castrol Edge products are NOT approved. Look for the appropriate MB spec numbers to be right on the bottle.

As you read through this site, you will see dealers have made wrong or poor oil recommendations and customers get stuck paying the bills when the damage happens. There are a lot of oils that will be "OK" in the short term but will cause damage over time.

Look up the oils you want to use on the MB oil site (jdcaples posts have the link) and make sure it meets the proper spec for your engine..MB specs...not ACEA or CJ whatever specs. I have seen what happens when you stray away from the right oils...and it is not very pretty.

Be Aware!
Mobil Delvac USA is U.S approved with E7 E5 CJ4 plus rating 1st generation NCV for particular filter with SCR and EGR it carries all US and International ratings.MB certifcated.


Castrol Is approved in the U.S with exclusion to some American makes not MB which is MB certificated.
Mobil 0W-40 labels differently but matches International Global API SAE ACEA and Euro specs
Tins of course MB certificated.

Shell Australia and the Shell U.S have identical ratings with again exclusions on some engines as opposed to U.S and Euro makes. the difference is labeling as to names only.Helix v Rotella

Beware if in doubt: write to Daimler AG and ask for a written certification.Please or even your own API for validation Please.
Richard
24610

piper1
06-28-2010, 09:09 PM
Sorry Richard....

Mobil Delvac in North America is NOT approved for MB228.51, NOT approved for MB 229.31, and NOT approved for MB229.51. While it is great oil and the description Mobil provides seems to fit...its ash level (1.0%) is TOO HIGH for the MB229.51 spec. CJ4 oils do not automatically meet any of the above approved specs for a North American NCV3, in fact almost none do.

Castrol does not have a properly MB approved oil for the NCV3 in North America. Yes, the EDGE product line in other parts of the world is approved...in NAFTA it is NOT.

The Mobil 0w40 that is widely available at retail and labeled "European" is NOT approved for NCV3 diesels..the ESP 0W40 that is approved is a special order from Mobil Distributors.

Shell Rotella...again a great oil, the North American formulation is NOT approved (again..too much ash). To say that other Shell products from other parts of the world are "the same" is not accurate.

There is no need to write anybody...look it up on Bevo and look for it on the bottle.

Richard, you are a smart guy and a great help to many on this site and as such have a great deal of trust, but please, quit telling NAFTA NCV3 owners they can use oils that are not approved or are not marketed here.

I spent months searching out approved oils available in North America as I did not want to pay the outrageous price that Mobil ESP Formula M (a 229.51 oil) was being sold for in Canada. I regularly talk to the technical folks at Shell, Chevron/Texaco, Mobil/Esso, and many smaller or private label brands to see what they have available that meets warranty specs. One of my clients is a Sprinter fleet, he hates Valvoline oil (personal grudge) and hates paying the inflated Mobil prices in Canada, he regularly bugs me to check for approved oil alternatives. When his vans run out of warranty we do other things (and take risks), but when they are under warranty we use the RIGHT oils.

One only needs to look at the awful experience and terrible costs incurred by some NAFTA users who have had the wrong oils used.

To recommend anything other than certified approved oils to a NAFTA vehicle owner is a dis-service, when the repair bill comes in who is paying if the wrong oils are used? Hint..it isn't Chrysler or MB.

showkey
06-28-2010, 11:44 PM
Sorry Richard....


The Mobil 0w40 that is widely available at retail and labeled "European" is NOT approved for NCV3 diesels..the ESP 0W40 that is approved is a special order from Mobil Distributors.

.

I also was looking all over the (US) midwest for 229.51 approved oil:

Found Mobil 1 ESP 0W-40 and the Truck turbo version of Mobil 1 ESP at Pep Boys in the Chicago area for $7.99 and $7.49 per quart respectfully, prior a few farm stores were selling gallons of Mobil 1 ESP but now can not be found.

229.51 is not an easy find stopped at over 15 locations with NO luck. I too found Castrol Edge products in several locations none were labeled 229.51.

kendall69
06-29-2010, 05:14 AM
My two cents on the AMSOIL Euro is AMAZING oil. I have 50K miles and have used Mobil 1, since new but this time I put in the AMSOIL and hit the road with an extra heavy load and took on the 14,000 ft mountains of Colorado. My Sprinter has never run smoother than it has this trip. The engine can not be heard at speed NOTHING absolute quite. I'm taking 6% grades 20 miles long and passing everything on the road.

Ni scientific tests but we all know when our vehicles hit the sweet spot and run like a fine tuned swiss watch and this oil has been put through it's paces and passed with flying colors.

Aqua Puttana
06-29-2010, 05:35 AM
...
AMSOIL Euro is AMAZING oil.
...
never run smoother
...
NOTHING absolute quiet.
...
passing everything on the road.
...
No scientific tests
...
sweet spot
...
fine tuned swiss watch
...
passed with flying colors.
I've suspected since I bought my Sprinter that what I really fell into was joining a cult.:rolleyes:

Most posts by Amsoil people about their products make us Sprinter cultists seem like godless heathens.:smilewink: vic

jdcaples
06-29-2010, 02:41 PM
My Amsoil experience doesn't quite reflect kendall69's experience. I use it because John Bendit uses it and because I'm am "Amsoil prefered customer." Amsoil prefered customers coughed up some cash to get Amsoil dealer pricing on products without the burden of dealer sales quota or the need to drink the Amsoil Kool-aid.

I won't call Amsoil's oil amazing. I'll call it competent, compatible and cheaper for me than the MB Mobil 1 Formula M ESP 5w-40.

-Jon

fishermunn
06-29-2010, 03:56 PM
i will echo jon's reply. i have changed to amsoil for the same reasons and have found it to be similar to the elf/total oil i used for the last oil change. after 5000 highway miles @ 60-65mph i just added a 1/2 quart to bring the level back to the middle mark on the stick. the same experience as the previous oil change. blackstone lab tested the previous oil change and reported below normal on wear or contaminants. i expect to get a similar report using the amsoil.

kendall69
06-29-2010, 04:04 PM
...Most posts by Amsoil people about their products make us Sprinter cultists seem like godless heathens.

I for one specifically stayed away from AMSOIL because it seemed like it was being sold by people with this black ties knocking on your door an preaching it's benefits. I was one that would never drink the Koolaid, but I used it to have a clear argument why AMSOIL was just hype.

I am an designer oil freak and have gone through, Royal Purple, Mobil one, Lubrication Engineer, Shell, etc. etc. etc. The only two that I have ever notice a difference was RED LINE which I use in everything and now AMSOIL. If REDLINE made an oil for the Sprinter I would be using it, but I wil admit I am now a Koolaid drinker.

jdcaples
06-29-2010, 05:34 PM
I've suspected since I bought my Sprinter that what I really fell into was joining a cult.:rolleyes:


You did not join a cult. You became part of our family.

Several Senior Brothers and Sisters will be paying several other brothers and sisters a visit, in person, to discuss an obvious misunderstanding regarding the voluntary financial support of the family's activities.

As part of their visit to check on delinquent siblings' well-being, those found to be in arears as regarding contributions will be left with the name of a local sports injury physician who will be happy to tend to those unfortunate, accidental knee and shoulder injuries.

Such bodily damage obviously pre-existed the visitation, as I'm sure you'll all agree.

We are certain that those injuries must have played a part in the failure to meet family obligations; after all, it's just pennies a day.

Once brothers and sisters are treated by our family doctor, and once brothers and sisters are no longer in pain, the family sincerely hopes that brothers and sisters who have been remiss, will again, happily meet obligations to the family.


Lt. Jon
Accounts Receivable
Sprinter Soldiers
Battalion November Charlie Victor Three

piper1
06-29-2010, 05:41 PM
Now that's funny!:lol::clapping:

Aqua Puttana
06-30-2010, 04:27 AM
Now that's funny!:lol::clapping:

Yes it is! :lol:

NWCR
08-09-2010, 05:17 PM
Has anyone every tried to use the Lubro Moly oil? They sell it at the local NAPA parts store by us. It says its made is Germany and meets the 229.3 spec. We have been using it for a few oil changes in our fleet since its the only oil the NAPA carries that meets the MB specs. Seems like an ok oil. Just wanted to see if anyone else has ever used it. Its only $33 for a 5L jug of it

blackheart
08-09-2010, 05:31 PM
229.3 oil is not for engines with a DPF

Altered Sprinter
08-09-2010, 05:56 PM
229.3 oil is not for engines with a DPF
Yes it does 229.3 is an improved variant from 2005 it's compliant to meet 229.5 and 229.51
as to the advanced ACEA rating Tin A3 B3/&A3 B4
229.3 advanced esp 0w-40 European A3 B3 &A3 B4 followed by C2 through to C3 the key is C3
Lubro Moly has to meet C3 to qualify for a DPF.it also meets M111FE fuel standards.
Richard

piper1
08-09-2010, 07:04 PM
MB229.3 is a somewhat obsolete spec from MB and contains too much ash for a DPF equipped V6 Sprinter. It is not approved. Most MB229.3 oils I looked up had ash levels above 1.0%, MB 229.51 oils are all under .7% (and that .3% is huge). There may be oils out there that have MB229.3 on the bottle that may also be MB229.31 but I doubt it due to the ash level differences between the two specs. MB229.31 is approved but not as widely available as MB229.51.

Look on the bottle, some NAPA's in the northeast were selling a MB229.51 product from Lubro Moly (I saw it in Syracuse NY and they said it sold quite well). The NAPA should also be able to get you the Valvoline MB229.51 approved SynPower (p/n VAL966)

Here is a chart of the Lubro (Liqui) Moly oils and their approvals
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/mediendb.nsf/gfx/184769229EF5799FC12574C8004F0527/$file/5625_Freigaben-%C3%9Cbersicht%20%C3%96le%20GB_0806.pdf

Here is a supplier with a picture of the approved Liqui Moly product
http://secure.mycart.net/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=5188422&showprevnext=1

I like the idea of it being in a 5L jug vs 1 quart bottles, less waste!:thumbup:

Altered Sprinter
08-10-2010, 12:47 AM
229.3 is a transition oil through to 229.51
C2/ C3
MB 229.3 - Multigrade engine oils (Specification 229.3) - Mercedes-Benz Specifications for Operating Fluids Last updated 07/29/2010 (http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.3_en.html)
Richard

kendall69
08-11-2010, 02:45 AM
So Altered what are you trying to say exactly? Are you saying 229.3 is a transition oil through to 229.51?

piper1
08-11-2010, 04:47 AM
229.3 is a transition oil through to 229.51
C2/ C3 is specific to DPF
Bevo.com MB 229.3 - Multigrade engine oils (Specification 229.3) - Mercedes-Benz Specifications for Operating Fluids Last updated 07/29/2010 (http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.3_en.html)
Richard

"C2/ C3 is specific to DPF" So is CJ-4, can't use it in a NCV3 in NAFTA (which is where the fellow was from), lots of oils on the shelf say DPF freindly, but are they MB DPF freindly, no.

"229.3 is a transition oil through to 229.51" Meaning exactly what? Are you telling the guy who asked, that 229.3 oil is OK to use in his NAFTA NCV3? Blackheart correctly said that 229.3 was not good for DPF (He's right) and in your reply you start out with "Yes it does".

At the top of the Bevo sheet for MB229.3 it says "For use in vehicles/engines refer to Sheet 223.2" Guess what happens when you go look at sheet 223.2 to see what "vehicles/engines" it is approved in?

You get this chart

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/d/d/en/Spec_223_2.pdf

In that chart, on page 3 under the colum (at the bottom) for an OM642 with a DPF, 229.3 oil is not approved, in fact it has the little symbol for "must not use".

If you look thru the rest of the chart, there is not a single application with a DPF that has the OK for MB229.3

I looked up the specs for 8 of the oils listed on that list (the 229.3 list). They ALL had too much ash for a DPF in a NAFTA NCV3.


If the oil has other approvals in addition to 229.3...great...but then it is not solely a 229.3 oil in MB's eyes.

Altered Sprinter
08-11-2010, 05:00 AM
So Altered what are you trying to say exactly? Are you saying 229.3 is a transition oil through to 229.51?
Apologies for the multiple threads above the forum went through data base errors yesterday
editing time is up so I can not remove them.
MB 229.3 base series type 2 oils have progressed by formula to 229.5 and 229.51 the differences are to meet the challenge of emissions controls with or without a DPF and soot control,followed by Temperature ranges and fuel economy.
Lubrizol Corporation USA acknowledges there are descriptivism of discontent as to Your API American Petroleum Institute with it's ratings not coinciding with ACEA as to Euro revisions yearly as to API with five year licensing agreements, thus a time lag difference. of five years can be very contentious with manufactures that use European engineering engine design.for the said designated N/A markets.
MB 229.3 - Multigrade engine oils (Specification 229.3) - Mercedes-Benz Specifications for Operating Fluids (http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.3_en.html)
The above listings show 229.31/22951 progressing to July 2009 if you follow the European and Australian Sites after you match the said synthetic oils by brand definition match same as the N/A market but Europe and the USA has a greater range of oils with varying labellings, once you navigate via the maze , one can fully match up with Europe Australia and N/America.
Note NCV still covers the final range of this sequence for Synthetic oils example: API:AM/CF ACEA: A3;B3/A3;B4 C2 C3 Minimum M111FE
With MB 229.3 there us a foot not to cross reference to 223.2 this has been discontinued as to the original oils that referenced to A, B2 these are no longer complaint for any MB Diesel engine
with EGR turbo assist with or with out EGR or even the DPF.
MB 229.3 also cross references to the TIN series of the same oils but with this sequencing:MB oils minimum 229.3 229.5 API: SM CF ACEA:A3, B3 A3 B4 there is no C2 C3 C4 as to non DPF fitments.
My only objection to the Bevo site is it's intended for a Euro site and although you can match oils for the N/A and Australian side ,planly put it's hard to do, as to confirming all data sheets with Eurpoe Australia and the N/A market to match exactingly.it does not help with name change or labellings colorways either.
one point of interest is this reference on N/A sites and Australian sites is the sequencing of [E this defines the model year E5 E6 E7 /E9
N/A Has E6/7 which may not be sufficient for the new 2010 Mercedes Sprinter that MB define in the USA as Mobil 5W-40? worth looking into.

25426
NOX final exhaust emissions for September 2009
U.S still does not have this fuel
25427

25428

25429
The last basic photo shows MB 229.3 5-50
these oils are now turning up for older engines that have exceed 100 K's many of for diesel and Petrol engines with out a DPF
25430
It's just not that simple !Why the next members going to state. "I use Purple Royal Jelly."
:lol:
Richard

Altered Sprinter
08-11-2010, 05:13 AM
An example of labeling differences between Australia and N/A
Mobil 1 Supersyn
25431
Changing of the guard through My Year 2001 to 2008
25432
N/A
25433
Australian Mobil show MB 229.3 to progression of 229.5
Tin Cans
Both N/A and OZ match.
25434
Richard

flman
08-15-2010, 06:11 PM
Who else uses the Amsoil here? I'm on the fence and like the ease of ordering it on line.

Also, where is the best place to order oil filters and what size for a 2007 Dodge?

Thanks in advance.

I have been using it in my 05 since it was new. Has not caused any problems.

papap
07-06-2011, 06:23 PM
Ok Here we go again. I have a 2011 Sprinter (Forest River Solera motorhome). I use Mobil 1 in all my engines. So which one do I need to use in the Sprinter?

sailquik
07-06-2011, 07:57 PM
Papap,
That's easy..... Check the MB BEVO list for Mobil 1 that meets the 229.51 Specification.
There's only one that I know of.
Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5w40
Here's the link:
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.51_en.html
I'm pretty sure this is SPECIFIED in the Operating Fluids in the back
of your MB Factory Operators Manual.
Enjoy,
Roger

upnorth
07-07-2011, 04:05 PM
Here is a MB link for Operating Fluids. Lots of good info there.

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolistenmain.php?entercustomer=true&language_id=1

If you click on a specific oil it will list all the oils made under that spec.

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolistenmain.php?navigation_path=bevolisten&blatt=229.51&content_action=show

Bob